How to get raped - long hair derail.

[mistermack]

I would prefer two threads, one where you can say absolutely anything, and one for the consolation, commiseration and politically correct comments.

Because what's the point of a debate where what you say has to please everybody?

[Hermit]

There's a lot of talk here about avoiding being raped by a stranger. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of rapes are by man that the women know - in many cases, either their partner, an ex-partner or a male relative/step relative. And, in most of these cases, alcohol use by the victim is not a factor - although alcohol use by the attacker, often is.

Most of which I pointed out here. Apart from Mistermack's derisory response it was pretty much ignored.

O well. Back to what women can do to avoid being raped. Mistermohammad (allah be praised) and his imams shall guide us some more.

[gib]

I would prefer two threads, one where you can say absolutely anything, and one for the consolation, commiseration and politically correct comments.

Because what's the point of a debate where what you say has to please everybody?

stop posting

[mistermack]

I would prefer two threads, one where you can say absolutely anything, and one for the consolation, commiseration and politically correct comments.

Because what's the point of a debate where what you say has to please everybody?

stop posting

Or start trolling.

[hadespussercats]

I have never understood the 'it's about violence and control, not sex', or the other popular 'it's not about sex, it's about power'. Doesn't mean anything to me. It can be about anything...Generalizing to this extent seems foolish.

There are people who don't believe someone could have been raped, because "who would rape her?"

But elderly women get raped, men get raped, babies get raped. It's not about female sex appeal. I'm not sure what you're getting at, if you think this is generalizing.

I guess I am a literalist, but in many of the rapes I have had learned about, sex happens.

To say that it is about violence, control, power AND sex would make sense, but I really don't understand why they say it isn't about sex.

This may sound a bit flip, but rape without sex would have to be called something else, wouldn't it?

The following sentence may further illustrate my thinking.
(I know a lot of you really like sex, but if your favourite flavour is 'consenting adults', then it isn't about sex for you, it's about consenting adults.)

Sure, sex is the weapon of rape.

But the discussion here had been lingering on issues of how women dress, burquas, hair, etc.-- but this is all aside from the point. People get raped no matter how they dress, or how they wear their hair.

Think of Brandon Teena-- the trans-man whose life was the basis for the film "Boys Don't Cry." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena ) He could not have dressed more unlike a seductive woman. But when his biological sex was revealed to be female, he was raped. That wasn't because he dressed sexy. That was a violent way of punishing him for being strange, a way of putting him in his place as a woman.

The issue of how a woman might dress to avoid being raped has more to do with the practicalities of defense and escape than it has anything to do with whether or not she seems sexy. Sexiness is beside the point.

Does this explanation help you understand what I'm getting at?

What you are getting at, yes, but not the broad generalizations I have heard. I would say that, in EVERY case, it was about sex AND something else. (Not 'sex' as in male/female but sex as in the act)
People get raped through no fault of their own, but what of the grayer areas? At a swingers club, you will be instructed that no means no, maybe means no, I don't know means no...basically, anything except yes means no. This is a great protection for those hedonists, and a great set of manners to use.

I don't think it is working yet among the masses. The lack of clear communication about sex contributes much to the mayhem.

That and I know a woman who told me that she liked anal sex, but only if she was forced. She liked it rough, and never once said yes (but enjoyed it after the fact). Where does she fit in to all this? (and thank fuck I am not single and dealing with that as often anymore)

When she is struggling to get away, is it rape? After, when she is 'coming down' and enjoying herself, is it suddenly not rape again?

BDSMers and swingers have to be really careful about communication-- and you're right-- it would be great if everyone were as careful.

The woman you are talking about made it clear she was consenting to the act ahead of time, and play-acting during. Nothing wrong with that, and it's certainly not rape. It'd be smart in that situation to establish a safety word, though-- safety words are used to mean "no" in a situation where people want to be able to use the word "no" without calling activities to an end.

[Cunt]

When she is struggling to get away, is it rape? After, when she is 'coming down' and enjoying herself, is it suddenly not rape again?

BDSMers and swingers have to be really careful about communication-- and you're right-- it would be great if everyone were as careful.

The woman you are talking about made it clear she was consenting to the act ahead of time, and play-acting during. Nothing wrong with that, and it's certainly not rape. It'd be smart in that situation to establish a safety word, though-- safety words are used to mean "no" in a situation where people want to be able to use the word "no" without calling activities to an end.

No, the woman I was talking about did not make it clear at all. She was forced into it during a drunken round of fucking with her regular, and she was opposed, even crying, as it began. Later, she decided she liked it. (even to the point of going back to him for another round or so)

I think clear communication would be best, but to achieve that, I think it would have to be taught and practiced. How do we arrange THAT in this culture so fucked up about sex?

[hadespussercats]

When she is struggling to get away, is it rape? After, when she is 'coming down' and enjoying herself, is it suddenly not rape again?

BDSMers and swingers have to be really careful about communication-- and you're right-- it would be great if everyone were as careful.

The woman you are talking about made it clear she was consenting to the act ahead of time, and play-acting during. Nothing wrong with that, and it's certainly not rape. It'd be smart in that situation to establish a safety word, though-- safety words are used to mean "no" in a situation where people want to be able to use the word "no" without calling activities to an end.

No, the woman I was talking about did not make it clear at all. She was forced into it during a drunken round of fucking with her regular, and she was opposed, even crying, as it began. Later, she decided she liked it. (even to the point of going back to him for another round or so)

I think clear communication would be best, but to achieve that, I think it would have to be taught and practiced. How do we arrange THAT in this culture so fucked up about sex?

Ah. The situation is very different from what I pictured from your earlier post. Yich.

The answer to your question, I think, is to try to encourage, teach, and practice good communication ourselves, in any way we can, and hope the culture in general becomes less fucked-up with time. At least, I can't think of any other tactic that's likely to work...

[Cunt]

Now is the guy a rapist? I would treat him as such, but if I was on a jury, I would have to reconsider. Fucking messy this 'reality' thing.

[hadespussercats]

Now is the guy a rapist? I would treat him as such, but if I was on a jury, I would have to reconsider. Fucking messy this 'reality' thing.

Yeah. I think he's a rapist. But the grey area of the definition isn't likely to get treated in a court of law, since he chose his target well. Reminds me of Ronja's post citing behaviors of sexual predators.

[charlou]

Fucking messy this 'reality' thing.

Sigworthy.