sandinista wrote:
So, post ww2 wiki lists (which it should be noted at the top states: This article has multiple issues....not a good start) Hungarian Revolution (which involved some Soviet tank fire), Czechoslovakia (where, I guess 72 Czechs and Slovaks were killed) and Afghanistan. That's it. Not much of a comparison when we're talking millions murdered by the US. That's your retort?
Assertion. What "millions" were "murdered" by the US, exactly? Sources for this ex-recto assertion would be useful.
And I'll see your "millions" and raise you "100 million" genuinely and legitimately murdered by socialist regimes in the last 100 years.
Coito ergo sum wrote:Very simple: I said the US was lambasted for NOT intervening in certain other places - and you said "rightly so."
You think it's justified that the US lambasted for intervening, and for not intervening. As long as the US is lambasted, it's "rightly so."
Takes a lot to get through that noggin of yours doesn't it? The reasons the US is criticized for intervening are endless (do we really need to go through them?) the reason the are criticized for not intervening is the hypocrisy and lies. When the US "claims" it is intervening for humanitarian reasons or to prevent massacres or spread the creamy butter of freedom the obvious questions arise as to "why there and not here" etc. Obviously all those reasons are lies, propaganda. Which, of course, is the reason they choose one country to "help" over another.
It's only "obvious" to Marxist propagandists and America-haters. The answer to "why there and not here" is quite simple: The circumstances necessary to convince our Congress to intervene in a nation's internal political struggles is directly connected to our national interests and security and the security of the world in general. Not every third-world banana republic tin-pot genocidal dictator poses a threat to our strategic national interests or world political and economic stability, so we don't waste our troops and treasure trying to police every instance of despotic abuse that occurs anywhere on the planet. We have neither the time, the money nor the interest unless there is some more or less direct connection to our national interests. And yes, the presence of strategic minerals like oil are among those national interests that we are fully entitled to consider when deciding whether to intervene.
Unlike the Soviets, however, when we do intervene to protect our access to strategic resources, we don't just seize the resources and steal them, we promote democracy and help the people to set up a democratic government that we hope will be friendly to us, so that we can buy the resources from that nation.
That may suck for the people of Rwanda or Somalia, but the US is not the world's policeman...that role was assumed by the UN way back when. If you have complaints about the lack of intervention in some specific incidence of internal despotism and genocide, go bitch to the UN, for all the good it will do you. It's their job to be the world's policeman, and they are incredibly inept and inefficient at it, not to mention fatally and morally corrupt to the core. That's not our problem, and I'm sick of participating in such a morally bankrupt organization that couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag with a nuclear device.
Let the rest of the world fund and provide troops to the UN, America needs to get out of the UN and serve NOTHING but our national interests. What that means to the rest of the world is that if you want our investment and our protection, it behooves you to be our friends and obligate yourselves under treaties favorable to both. Otherwise, you're on your own the next time a despot comes around. And that applies PARTICULARLY to the UK and the rest of the EU. We've pulled your sorry asses from the fire for the last time, as far as I'm concerned.
We Americans have no duty to intervene anywhere, but we have a perfect right to intervene wherever it suits our national needs and interests to do so, using whatever military force our government thinks is necessary to secure our national security and strategic interests.
If you don't like that, well, fuck you. We've got the most powerful military on the planet, and we don't care what you like or don't like.
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