How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:11 am

The Mad Hatter wrote:And until we do, we don't know that we're missing anything.
But we will know that we can't figure it out. We won't know that we need chipotlegenic hydrodamnitallide to kick start life.
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Trolldor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:14 am

We won't know that we do need it either.
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:17 am

The Mad Hatter wrote:We won't know that we do need it either.
True, and if life started elsewhere we may never know. That's the point of this thread, btw.
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Feck » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:17 am

The conditions have to be within a certain range ,amino acids have to be stable ,proteins have to be stable and hold their structure, the elements needed for all the amino acids have to be present .that puts quite a lot of limits on where ambiogenisis could take place .
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Trolldor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:17 am

Feck wrote:The conditions have to be within a certain range ,amino acids have to be stable ,proteins have to be stable and hold their structure, the elements needed for all the amino acids have to be present .that puts quite a lot of limits on where ambiogenisis could take place .

The conditions that we so far believe to be the case.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Dory » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:55 am

I am rather beginning to suspect that even chemical evolution was possible due to physical evolution first, just like the biological evolution was enabled after the chemical evolution. That is to say, perhaps there was a physical evolutionary process (the coming together of subsubsubparticles to create a stable substance known as atom), that had kept evolving until what we decided to define as biology, is in fact simply the continuous evolution of the universe. Natural selection then must apply to chemistry and physics as well.

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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Feck » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:58 am

Dory wrote:I am rather beginning to suspect that even chemical evolution was possible due to physical evolution first, just like the biological evolution was enabled after the chemical evolution. That is to say, perhaps there was a physical evolutionary process (the coming together of subsubsubparticles to create a stable substance known as atom), that had kept evolving until what we decided to define as biology, is in fact simply the continuous evolution of the universe. Natural selection then must apply to chemistry and physics as well.

if the presence of one molecule makes the formation of another one like it more possible then molecules could be thought of as 'evolving '
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Trolldor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:14 am

Replicating.

It's only 'evolving' if the molecules are changing.
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Feck » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:18 am

The Mad Hatter wrote:Replicating.

It's only 'evolving' if the molecules are changing.
Yeah first replicate then that changes conditions or templates and available substrates so different molecules are formed later in response to the original types ...not exactly like evolution but a process with similar effects ?
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by PsychoSerenity » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:26 am

Feck wrote:
The Mad Hatter wrote:Replicating.

It's only 'evolving' if the molecules are changing.
Yeah first replicate then that changes conditions or templates and available substrates so different molecules are formed later in response to the original types ...not exactly like evolution but a process with similar effects ?
The universe is a complex system with emergent dynamics. That is all. :tea:
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:05 pm

Psychoserenity wrote:
Feck wrote:
The Mad Hatter wrote:Replicating.

It's only 'evolving' if the molecules are changing.
Yeah first replicate then that changes conditions or templates and available substrates so different molecules are formed later in response to the original types ...not exactly like evolution but a process with similar effects ?
The universe is a complex system with emergent dynamics. That is all. :tea:
We're going to have to be a whole lot smarter to figure this out.
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Tero » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:09 pm

Mr P wrote:However life started it's still likely to be down to chemistry, the same rules will still apply wherever the origin lies.
This is what I always thought. Elsewhere in the universe you will still find critters with exoskeletons and some with spines.

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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:12 pm

Tero wrote:
Mr P wrote:However life started it's still likely to be down to chemistry, the same rules will still apply wherever the origin lies.
This is what I always thought. Elsewhere in the universe you will still find critters with exoskeletons and some with spines.
The problem is I'm not at all sure we know all the rules. I seriously doubt we have it all shushed after only a couple of centuries.
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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Trolldor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:16 pm

We don't have it sussed out here, let alone out there in the Universe.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: How to really screw up abiogenisis research.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:18 pm

The Mad Hatter wrote:We don't have it sussed out here, let alone out there in the Universe.
Ed Zachery.
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