yep.Azathoth wrote:Look at these young entrepeneurs. They are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and will be millionaires in no time with the free market forces at their disposal. I dont know what all you pinkos are whining about.
Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
And yet they hold well over 90% of the wealth. But there's no such thing as inequality, right Seth?Seth wrote:What is their "fair share" exactly, and what calculations and rationalizations do you use in determining what that share is, pray tell?subversive science wrote:I know. Poor rich people are forced to pair their less-than-fair share in taxes by the big bad government.Seth wrote: Besides, nobody said life is fair...or easy.
I've heard many the socialist say that the rich don't pay their "fair share," in spite of the fact that the top 10 percent of taxpayers pay 68% of the taxes:
No one said life was fair Seth. In fact, some people positively love to point out how unfair it is (particularly when they are comfortably wealthy).Since the top 50% of taxpayers pay 97% of taxes, and the bottom 50% pay less than 3%, what's "fair share" in your opinion? Be specific. Give me a dollar amount, or a percentage of income, and some discussion of why a progressive income tax is reasonable, rational or fair.
I'll wait. For a while.

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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
Firstly, there's a tax scale. Earn more income, pay a higher tax.
Secondly, people earning far more income than others will pay more taxes.
Thirdly, Derp.
Even a flat tax would have the rich paying more taxes than the poor.
Secondly, people earning far more income than others will pay more taxes.
Thirdly, Derp.
Even a flat tax would have the rich paying more taxes than the poor.
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
You should read the original post. The whole point is that death panels are bureaucrats that get to overrule doctors.MrJonno wrote:Well if I become incapacitated I want doctors making their best decision not my wife (and I've told her that). Not that I don't love my wife but she isn't a doctor and simply isn't qualified to make such decisions.
As for death panels, my mother has cancer she is also old with lots of other conditions She is perfectly competent and in discussion with the doctors she isn't being treated for the cancer as any drugs would interfere with anti-pain drugs she takes. Lunatics can call that death panels if they want I call it decent healthcare
Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
There is only one country on Earth where its not the doctors making the decisions when it comes to medical care and that's the US where its insurance companies making them
When only criminals carry guns the police know exactly who to shoot!
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
Personally, I would like to be the one who decides when I'll shuffle off this mortal coil.
If I'm non compos mentis, then House will have to decide...
If I'm non compos mentis, then House will have to decide...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
You want to take what Seth writes about private health insurance with a pinch of salt.
He believes in the system so much, he hasn't got any health insurance for himself.
He's said so on several occasions.
He believes in the system so much, he hasn't got any health insurance for himself.
He's said so on several occasions.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
That's misrepresenting the true situation.Warren Dew wrote: You should read the original post. The whole point is that death panels are bureaucrats that get to overrule doctors.
The panel only gets involved when the family and the doctors are at odds, and the alternative is to drag it through the courts, while the patient lies there suffering.
So in that situation, it's going to be either the courts overruling the doctors, or a panel.
Courts don't have doctors on the bench. The panel almost certainly will.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
That may be true, but the hospital administrators in European countries have a budget to work with. The money is not endless. I believe it is a compromise between the doctor and the administrator. In case of disasters and terrorist activity, the hospital may get extra money.MrJonno wrote:There is only one country on Earth where its not the doctors making the decisions when it comes to medical care and that's the US where its insurance companies making them
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
That's the reality of any health care. There's always money that can be spent on keeping people alive. But it's a case of diminishing returns (to apply a fairly repugnant metaphor/thingy). Accepting that doesn't mean we have to freak out about DEATH PANELS!!1!. It's a reality of a technological society. I think having both a private and public system is the way to go (like we have here in Australia). Then everyone gets covered, and those who can afford it get covered a bit nicer.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
There may be cases where there is a treatment for a disease that buys you months maybe years of life. But is not available in your country. You can always pay cash and fly to Mayo Clinic or Anderson in Texas.
Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
There is no medicine that actually works that a 1st world country can't afford for every citizen if it wants too.
You know why, because no one does medicine specifically for millionaires as quite simply there is money in it. You don't get situations where I can save your life but it will cost 1 million pounds/dollars to do as who would ever develop such a technique
Where you do get limitations in drugs that have an extremely limited if any level of efficiency, if you take this £50k drug it has a 10% chance of keeping you alive for any extra 6 weeks educate
You know why, because no one does medicine specifically for millionaires as quite simply there is money in it. You don't get situations where I can save your life but it will cost 1 million pounds/dollars to do as who would ever develop such a technique
Where you do get limitations in drugs that have an extremely limited if any level of efficiency, if you take this £50k drug it has a 10% chance of keeping you alive for any extra 6 weeks educate
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
As usual, Jonno, your post is barely (if at all) coherent.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
Azathoth wrote:Look at these young entrepeneurs. They are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and will be millionaires in no time with the free market forces at their disposal. I dont know what all you pinkos are whining about.
They tried outlawing dump picking in India once as I recall

Well meaning liberals thought it was horrible that children were foraging through a dump looking for scrap to earn money. So the government was pressured to outlaw that practice. Then the dump pickers rioted because now they had no means to support their family.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.
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Re: Socialized medicine's inevitable death panels
No sign of socialized healthcare. I get the same plan as last year OR a cheap high deductible plan.
Yahoo News:
Obamacare Sites Still Swamped but Wait Times Cut
Myth: Obamacare is leading to part-time jobs
It's a common refrain of its opponents: Obamacare will force struggling Americans into part-time work. Well, the first bits of evidence have come in, and it does not look as if the Affordable Care Act has had any negative impact on full-time work.
Between August and September the economy has added 691,000 full-time jobs, while it has lost 594,000 part-time jobs, according to the September jobs report. While this is only one month's worth of data, it indicates that at least so far, the law hasn't pushed full-time employees into part-time work.
Myth: Employers aren't changing the insurance they offer because of Obamacare.
"If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan," said President Obama in 2009 as he worked to sell the health care bill that would result in the Affordable Care Act. For many Americans, fall means open enrollment season for their employee-based health care plans. And some of those plans have definitely changed.
Here are some high profile examples: Citing the Affordable Care Act, UPS announced it would drop health coverage for some spouses of employees who were eligible for health insurance elsewhere. And Home Depot said it would shift its part-time employees to public health insurance exchanges instead of providing insurance through the company.
The truth is, some health insurance plans would be required to change because of the Affordable Care Act: Either they don't meet the minimum coverage requirements of the new law, or they are too generous -- so called "Cadillac" insurance plans.
But not all changes stem from the new law. Employers have been changing health insurance plans for years before the ACA. For example, the average deductible has increased every year since 2006 -- before and after the health care law -- according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
Yahoo News:
Obamacare Sites Still Swamped but Wait Times Cut
Myth: Obamacare is leading to part-time jobs
It's a common refrain of its opponents: Obamacare will force struggling Americans into part-time work. Well, the first bits of evidence have come in, and it does not look as if the Affordable Care Act has had any negative impact on full-time work.
Between August and September the economy has added 691,000 full-time jobs, while it has lost 594,000 part-time jobs, according to the September jobs report. While this is only one month's worth of data, it indicates that at least so far, the law hasn't pushed full-time employees into part-time work.
Myth: Employers aren't changing the insurance they offer because of Obamacare.
"If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan," said President Obama in 2009 as he worked to sell the health care bill that would result in the Affordable Care Act. For many Americans, fall means open enrollment season for their employee-based health care plans. And some of those plans have definitely changed.
Here are some high profile examples: Citing the Affordable Care Act, UPS announced it would drop health coverage for some spouses of employees who were eligible for health insurance elsewhere. And Home Depot said it would shift its part-time employees to public health insurance exchanges instead of providing insurance through the company.
The truth is, some health insurance plans would be required to change because of the Affordable Care Act: Either they don't meet the minimum coverage requirements of the new law, or they are too generous -- so called "Cadillac" insurance plans.
But not all changes stem from the new law. Employers have been changing health insurance plans for years before the ACA. For example, the average deductible has increased every year since 2006 -- before and after the health care law -- according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
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