Boston Marathon hit by explosions

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Coito ergo sum
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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:47 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:
JimC wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Dole bludgers. Gateway to blowing stuff up.
I know you're taking the piss, and being rightly sarcastic about a causal link...

But...

If the guy had been fully involved in something, a challenging career or course of studies, then maybe the festering resentment and ultimate capture by jihadist ideas wouldn't have happened...

The devil finds work for idle hands... ;)
Quite possibly true. It's just that it is the daily fail, and they capitalised WELFARE just to make sure we all got the message.
Not a "gateway" to terrorism, but in this country there is too much dole fraud. People lie through their teeth and get free stuff.

I know a couple, for example, that are having a baby. The mother works as a cleaning lady, mainly working with unreported income (I know this, because she has disclosed that she was collecting EBT (food stamps -- food assistance - a monthly stipend to pay for groceries and stuff, although it can be used for almost anything) and other government assistance. So, she must have lied about the money she makes, because she has a full weekly schedule of houses. What they do is they ask to be paid in cash, or they cash checks at check-cashing stores and such, so they can try to hide the money.

Well, so the mother and father registered the baby's birth without a father listed, even though they know who the father is. They won't get married and he won't legally acknowledge the kid. So, she can keep applying for benefits as single mom making no money. They are scammers -- they even know to not bring a car safety seat to the hospital, because they know that if they don't have one and if they say they can't afford one, then the hospital will provide them with a free one.

They are not isolated cases. The system is rife with such abject scum. Lying pieces of human refuse.

EDIT - oh, and of course, when they scam like this, they get medicaid, so they pay nothing to have the baby. NOTHING. No deductibles. Nothing. They even get free infant formula.

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:18 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Warren Dew wrote:
Boston bomber Tamerlan sat home collecting WELFARE benefits while plotting to bomb America (and his wife worked 80 hours a week)

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, received welfare up until 2012
His wife Katherine worked up to 80 hours a week as a home healthcare worker while Tamerlan stayed at home
The Tsarnaev brothers received state aid as children, when their parents relied on welfare benefits after immigrating to the U.S.
Dzhokhar, 19, sold pot to make spending money at college, friends say
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2RRxxKqWg

Now we know why all of Dzhokhar's friends thought he was such a great guy.
They must have committed welfare fraud, because the wife working 80 hours a week as a home healthcare provider would put them over the threshold for collecting welfare. Either that, or the system in Massachusetts is woefully underpoliced.

That's typical, though. There are a lot of scammers -- they lie to get the benefits. They work under the table and say they make nothing. You get able bodied folks like these deadbeats getting welfare, food stamps, free food and clothing, etc. It's a crying shame. Disgusting people.

Yeah, coz welfare cheating is much more disgusting than blowing up random people.
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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by MrJonno » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:19 pm

EDIT - oh, and of course, when they scam like this, they get medicaid, so they pay nothing to have the baby. NOTHING. No deductibles. Nothing. They even get free infant formula.
Obviously that's what makes them scum, fancy having a baby and not getting your credit out to pay the hospital. What is the world coming too
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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:23 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
JimC wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Dole bludgers. Gateway to blowing stuff up.
I know you're taking the piss, and being rightly sarcastic about a causal link...

But...

If the guy had been fully involved in something, a challenging career or course of studies, then maybe the festering resentment and ultimate capture by jihadist ideas wouldn't have happened...

The devil finds work for idle hands... ;)
Quite possibly true. It's just that it is the daily fail, and they capitalised WELFARE just to make sure we all got the message.
Not a "gateway" to terrorism, but in this country there is too much dole fraud. People lie through their teeth and get free stuff.
Probably because you have terrible social welfare there for the less well off. If I was struggling to pay medical costs and food etc, I'd probably rort the system as much as I could. And it's typical of conservatives like you to get all frothy about the tiny amounts of money involved in welfare cheating, and not about the insane amounts of corporate welfare that go on in your country. Not to mention things like offshore tax havens. Those rich fucks who shuffle their money out of your country and avoid taxation on it are stealing a FAR greater wealth from the country/society than a small number of people at the bottom of the pile.
I know a couple, for example, that are having a baby. The mother works as a cleaning lady, mainly working with unreported income (I know this, because she has disclosed that she was collecting EBT (food stamps -- food assistance - a monthly stipend to pay for groceries and stuff, although it can be used for almost anything) and other government assistance. So, she must have lied about the money she makes, because she has a full weekly schedule of houses. What they do is they ask to be paid in cash, or they cash checks at check-cashing stores and such, so they can try to hide the money.

Well, so the mother and father registered the baby's birth without a father listed, even though they know who the father is. They won't get married and he won't legally acknowledge the kid. So, she can keep applying for benefits as single mom making no money. They are scammers -- they even know to not bring a car safety seat to the hospital, because they know that if they don't have one and if they say they can't afford one, then the hospital will provide them with a free one.

They are not isolated cases. The system is rife with such abject scum. Lying pieces of human refuse.
Didn't read it. I get too upset hearing a conservative getting stuck into the poor, when it is the politicians and rich in your country that are engaged in the biggest heist. Conservatives can fuck off and die as far as I am concerned. Conservatives are the scum of the earth.
EDIT - oh, and of course, when they scam like this, they get medicaid, so they pay nothing to have the baby. NOTHING. No deductibles. Nothing. They even get free infant formula.
OMG the horror!!1! That must be like 10's of dollars, right? :fuckoff:
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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:31 pm

rEvolutionist wrote: Yeah, coz welfare cheating is much more disgusting than blowing up random people.
I didn't know it was a contest. But, this family did both -- welfare cheats and murderers.

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:34 pm

MrJonno wrote:
EDIT - oh, and of course, when they scam like this, they get medicaid, so they pay nothing to have the baby. NOTHING. No deductibles. Nothing. They even get free infant formula.
Obviously that's what makes them scum, fancy having a baby and not getting your credit out to pay the hospital. What is the world coming too
When they have the money to pay for their own insurance, but instead they lie and get it for free? Yes. That's fucking disgusting.

What is this world coming to when people think committing fraud is o.k.

And, everyone is supposed to pay something, aren't they? Whether it's their fair share of taxes (which these deadbeats are not paying, so they aren't even chipping in to the State treasury for the Medicaid that they are collecting), or to pay for insurance. They evade taxes, don't pay their fair share, and then siphon off the public dole benefits by committing wilful fraud.

Go ahead. Defend it.

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:43 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
JimC wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Dole bludgers. Gateway to blowing stuff up.
I know you're taking the piss, and being rightly sarcastic about a causal link...

But...

If the guy had been fully involved in something, a challenging career or course of studies, then maybe the festering resentment and ultimate capture by jihadist ideas wouldn't have happened...

The devil finds work for idle hands... ;)
Quite possibly true. It's just that it is the daily fail, and they capitalised WELFARE just to make sure we all got the message.
Not a "gateway" to terrorism, but in this country there is too much dole fraud. People lie through their teeth and get free stuff.
Probably because you have terrible social welfare there for the less well off.
Clearly not, but not knowing what you're talking about has never stopped you before.
rEvolutionist wrote:
If I was struggling to pay medical costs and food etc, I'd probably rort the system as much as I could. And it's typical of conservatives like you to get all frothy about the tiny amounts of money involved in welfare cheating, and not about the insane amounts of corporate welfare that go on in your country.
Cock-knocker, I'm not conservative, and I am very much against corporate welfare, which is why I have been against all the bailouts and Stimulus payments to corporations. I am against subsidies to private corporations in general Yes, I'm against welfare fraud, and I bet you are more in support of corporate welfare than I am, because I bet you 100% support bailing out financial instituations, automobile companies and the like, right?

The people I am referring to are probably making more money than you. Only they do it under the table. I know illegals here in the US that make around $80,000 per year, by their own admission, and get food stamps and Medicaid because they hide their income.
rEvolutionist wrote:
Not to mention things like offshore tax havens. Those rich fucks who shuffle their money out of your country and avoid taxation on it are stealing a FAR greater wealth from the country/society than a small number of people at the bottom of the pile.
I'm against offshore tax havens.

I am also against these crooks sitting at home, able-bodies, and collecting welfare.
rEvolutionist wrote:
I know a couple, for example, that are having a baby. The mother works as a cleaning lady, mainly working with unreported income (I know this, because she has disclosed that she was collecting EBT (food stamps -- food assistance - a monthly stipend to pay for groceries and stuff, although it can be used for almost anything) and other government assistance. So, she must have lied about the money she makes, because she has a full weekly schedule of houses. What they do is they ask to be paid in cash, or they cash checks at check-cashing stores and such, so they can try to hide the money.

Well, so the mother and father registered the baby's birth without a father listed, even though they know who the father is. They won't get married and he won't legally acknowledge the kid. So, she can keep applying for benefits as single mom making no money. They are scammers -- they even know to not bring a car safety seat to the hospital, because they know that if they don't have one and if they say they can't afford one, then the hospital will provide them with a free one.

They are not isolated cases. The system is rife with such abject scum. Lying pieces of human refuse.
Didn't read it. I get too upset hearing a conservative getting stuck into the poor, when it is the politicians and rich in your country that are engaged in the biggest heist. Conservatives can fuck off and die as far as I am concerned. Conservatives are the scum of the earth.
The point is - they aren't fucking poor. A cleaning lady here makes $35k easy. They don't pay taxes on it, because they hid the fucking money. And, the husband I was referring to is in construction and flooring, and together they most likely make $100,000 a year. He owns a house -- fairly nice -- and a brand new truck.

Conservatives can fuck off, as far as I'm concerned, too. It's not "conservative" to be against people robbing and committing fraud. To be in favor of it, to defend it like you do, that takes a special kind of assholery that is hard to come by. It's someone like you who is among the dregs of society. Bitching for handouts and demanding free stuff, and claiming that it is good for people to commit fraud.
rEvolutionist wrote:
EDIT - oh, and of course, when they scam like this, they get medicaid, so they pay nothing to have the baby. NOTHING. No deductibles. Nothing. They even get free infant formula.
OMG the horror!!1! That must be like 10's of dollars, right? :fuckoff:
To have a baby? Out of pocket, the cost is more like $20k or $30k all totalled. If you pay for insurance, like most people do, then you pay an insurance premium and are entitled to the benefits. On top of that, most people pay their taxes, too, which funds the Medicaid and other dole benefits.

The deadbeats that evade paying taxes, and commit fraud by understating their incomes to collect benefits they aren't entitled to are criminals. They are committing fraud crimes. But, by all means, defend them.

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by MrJonno » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:11 pm

Defend not paying to have a baby, nah but its about the same moral level as grabbing your drug dealer heroin and doing a runner without paying. It's fraud against an industry that should not exist.

Welfare does get abused, but I've abused the tax system far more than any welfare recipient. I called myself 'self employed' which was a joke but allowed me to legally avoid a lot of taxes. It was legal but not remotely moral or ethical. The state would be better of closing loop holes like than chasing those at the bottom
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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:22 pm

MrJonno wrote:Defend not paying to have a baby, nah but its about the same moral level as grabbing your drug dealer heroin and doing a runner without paying. It's fraud against an industry that should not exist.
Bollocks. Only a childish mind can think like that. The industry must exist, because someone has to build hospitals, educate and hire doctors, research and develop machines, medical implements, drugs/medications, anaesthesia, etc.

Whether the government runs it, or whether private industry runs it, it doesn't make it go away. And, it still costs money, although little children generally think stuff just happens...

So, when it's government run plan, like the NHS, people pay via taxes. That's like Medicaid here in the US. So, when someone evades taxes and doesn't pay in, even though they make plenty of money that if the money was accounted for they would have had to pay taxes like you and me and most of the rest of the citizenry, they are committing a serious fraud.

What would you consider a person who works making say 50,000 pounds a year in the UK, and evades taxes and also makes money by being paid on the dole because he lies and claims benefits as an unemployed poor person? Then goes to the hospital and takes services without having paid any share?

MrJonno wrote:
Welfare does get abused, but I've abused the tax system far more than any welfare recipient. I called myself 'self employed' which was a joke but allowed me to legally avoid a lot of taxes. It was legal but not remotely moral or ethical. The state would be better of closing loop holes like than chasing those at the bottom
I'm not sure what the system is there, but if you could avoid taxes merely by calling yourself "self-employed" then it sounds really silly. Here, even self-employed people have to pay tax on income. People lie, but not getting caught in the lie doesn't mean one has not done something wrong. A cheat is a cheat.

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by MrJonno » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:30 pm

I'm not sure what the system is there, but if you could avoid taxes merely by calling yourself "self-employed" then it sounds really silly. Here, even self-employed people have to pay tax on income. People lie, but not getting caught in the lie doesn't mean one has not done something wrong. A cheat is a cheat.
Pretty sure its the same in the US,

Call yourself self employed, form a 1 man company, pay yourself minimum wage and then get taxes on business profit which is generally a rate far lower than income tax. Obviously claiming lots of expenses on the way (generally most people paying income tax in the UK have zero claimable anything and don't bother with tax forms)

The government has technically closed this one now as in you have to show that you are a 'real company' not just a temp but they don't have the resources to even get 1% of people doing it

Hospitals should be tax payer funded end of story, if someone is tax fiddling then they should be prosecuted by that's nothing to do with hospitals
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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:41 pm

MrJonno wrote:
I'm not sure what the system is there, but if you could avoid taxes merely by calling yourself "self-employed" then it sounds really silly. Here, even self-employed people have to pay tax on income. People lie, but not getting caught in the lie doesn't mean one has not done something wrong. A cheat is a cheat.
Pretty sure its the same in the US,

Call yourself self employed, form a 1 man company, pay yourself minimum wage and then get taxes on business profit which is generally a rate far lower than income tax. Obviously claiming lots of expenses on the way (generally most people paying income tax in the UK have zero claimable anything and don't bother with tax forms)
That isn't the way it is here in the States. In the US, you form a corporation and the corporation is subject to taxation on income at the corporate rate, AND then you pay tax on any distribution to the owner whether as wages or as a dividend or whatever. One can register with the IRS as a "Subchapter S" corporation which means that the corporate level tax is skipped, but the income of the corporation is then taxed at the individual income tax rate. Yes, you can claim business expenses, but you can't legally claim your personal expenses as business expenses. To do so is tax evasion and a crime.

MrJonno wrote: The government has technically closed this one now as in you have to show that you are a 'real company' not just a temp but they don't have the resources to even get 1% of people doing it
If you get in trouble by being caught, then you're doing something wrong. Getting away with it doesn't make it right.
MrJonno wrote:

Hospitals should be tax payer funded end of story, if someone is tax fiddling then they should be prosecuted by that's nothing to do with hospitals
I never said it had anything to do with hospitals.

But, making enough money to buy health insurance, but fraudulently claiming one does not make that much money, means one is fraudulently getting free stuff. Making enough money to not be poor and therefore not qualifying for Medicaid, but then claiming such benefits and also claiming other benefits to which one is not entitled because one makes decent money is also getting stuff fraudulently.

That does a few things:

1. It sucks up money that could be used to provide more help to the needy.
2. It is unfair to those who don't lie and cheat, and have to pay for the expenses of cheats who can afford things.

This has nothing to do with whether a private or public health system is better. This is cheating either one. Cheating on taxes -- cheating on an application for entitlement to government benefits -- it's cheating. it's not fair. and, too many people do it.

Being a liberal doesn't mean one should be in favor of cheating. One can, and ought to, be opposed to people not paying their fair share, and it is bogus to be in favor of people getting away with doing it when they make enough money to get by.

Bring this back to the scumbag marathon bombers -- we have a health 26 year old man who sat at home being supported by his spouse who worked, so the article says "up to" 80 hours a week. He apparently lied to get welfare, food stamps and the like and then sat at home seething about the evil nature of the US. His brother, the other scumbag bomber, was provided free college tuition by this evil country.

Neither one of them should have gotten any of it. They were grown men.

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by MrJonno » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:59 pm

That isn't the way it is here in the States. In the US, you form a corporation and the corporation is subject to taxation on income at the corporate rate, AND then you pay tax on any distribution to the owner whether as wages or as a dividend or whatever. One can register with the IRS as a "Subchapter S" corporation which means that the corporate level tax is skipped, but the income of the corporation is then taxed at the individual income tax rate. Yes, you can claim business expenses, but you can't legally claim your personal expenses as business expenses. To do so is tax evasion and a crime.
You really can't pay dividends in the US to get around income tax?, if that's true then I wish our government would implement something like that , we just have the brute force IR35 regulation where the government looks at your contracts (in practice and spirit) and then declares if you are genuine company or just a dodgy tax evader (like I was before IR35).

The only reason I think the US might have rules like this is perhaps being self employed/running your own company is more common over there, I don't know anyone socially who runs their own company/is self employed anymore
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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Warren Dew » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:29 pm

JimC wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Dole bludgers. Gateway to blowing stuff up.
I know you're taking the piss, and being rightly sarcastic about a causal link...

But...

If the guy had been fully involved in something, a challenging career or course of studies, then maybe the festering resentment and ultimate capture by jihadist ideas wouldn't have happened...

The devil finds work for idle hands... ;)
The likely issue in this case is a bit different. Normal immigration applicants are required to show strong evidence that they are coming to the U.S. to contribute and will be productive citizens here. However, the Tsarmaevs immigrated as refugees. Refugees don't have to demonstrate any of those things, so they can come straight onto welfare if they want. It's an example of how our immigration system is messed up.

Incidentally, here's an alternative source for those who dislike the Daily Mail:

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/lo ... e_benefits

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Warren Dew » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:30 pm

MrJonno wrote:You really can't pay dividends in the US to get around income tax?
In the U.S., the corporation has to pay taxes before paying dividends, and then the dividends get taxed as income to the recipient, so you end up getting taxed twice if you do this.

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Re: Boston Marathon hit by explosions

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:34 pm

MrJonno wrote:
That isn't the way it is here in the States. In the US, you form a corporation and the corporation is subject to taxation on income at the corporate rate, AND then you pay tax on any distribution to the owner whether as wages or as a dividend or whatever. One can register with the IRS as a "Subchapter S" corporation which means that the corporate level tax is skipped, but the income of the corporation is then taxed at the individual income tax rate. Yes, you can claim business expenses, but you can't legally claim your personal expenses as business expenses. To do so is tax evasion and a crime.
You really can't pay dividends in the US to get around income tax?,
No, not lawfully. Dividends is taxable income.
MrJonno wrote: if that's true then I wish our government would implement something like that , we just have the brute force IR35 regulation where the government looks at your contracts (in practice and spirit) and then declares if you are genuine company or just a dodgy tax evader (like I was before IR35).

The only reason I think the US might have rules like this is perhaps being self employed/running your own company is more common over there, I don't know anyone socially who runs their own company/is self employed anymore
Maybe. Small businesses are fairly common around here.

But, I'm against tax evasion as well as defrauding the public welfare departments. Are you against the practice of defrauding public welfare departments such that people receive benefits to which they are not otherwise legally in need?

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