An independent Scotland?

[Pappa]

I think that a lot of the antagonism (not in this thread, but more widespread) is due to the idea that some people see this as an anti-English thing, when it's no such thing.

I don't know. I'm sure there are lots of Scots that would vote yes for anti-English reasons alone. It's be the same in Northern Ireland and here in Wales too.

Oh, of course you'll find some... every bell curve has its extremes. It isn't, however, the reason for independence being sought.

You won't find any disagreement from me there. In my experience it can be difficult for English people who oppose devolution to really understand how Westminster doesn't serve Wales, NI and Scotland at all well. It's not that Westminster are anti-Celtic Fringe.... they just have more pressing concerns that relate to their own areas, and concerns in Wales, NI and Scotland are more likely to be insignificant to them.

[mistermack]

As a 'merkin, I am equally something towards or perhaps against England, Scotland and that other one, whazzis...Ireland or something?

The Merkins had an answer for separatists. They didn't give a toss about local democracy.
They just said no, and enforced it.
They are better off for it.

That's what we should have done.

[FBM]

As a 'merkin, I am equally something towards or perhaps against England, Scotland and that other one, whazzis...Ireland or something?

The Merkins had an answer for separatists. They didn't give a toss about local democracy.
They just said no, and enforced it.
They are better off for it.

That's what we should have done.

Whilst pretending to understand what you're talking about, I would also like to mention Wales. I believe they are connected somehow to something.

[Bella Fortuna]

As a 'merkin, I am equally something towards or perhaps against England, Scotland and that other one, whazzis...Ireland or something?

The Merkins had an answer for separatists. They didn't give a toss about local democracy.
They just said no, and enforced it.
They are better off for it.

That's what we should have done.

Whilst pretending to understand what you're talking about, I would also like to mention Wales. I believe they are connected somehow to something.

I cast suspicious glances at your evident book larnin'. You sure you're one of us?

[Pappa]

As a 'merkin, I am equally something towards or perhaps against England, Scotland and that other one, whazzis...Ireland or something?

The Merkins had an answer for separatists. They didn't give a toss about local democracy.
They just said no, and enforced it.
They are better off for it.

That's what we should have done.

All US states have their own laws. Federal Laws are only for the most serious crimes. They also have different laws/rules from county to county within states. So, they obviously do give a toss about local democracy.

[mistermack]

Whilst pretending to understand what you're talking about, I would also like to mention Wales. I believe they are connected somehow to something.

I see you don't post any evidence for that.
Why should I take your word for that on trust, without a link or reference?
It might just be something you dreamed last night.

[mistermack]

All US states have their own laws. Federal Laws are only for the most serious crimes. They also have different laws/rules from county to county within states. So, they obviously do give a toss about local democracy.

Yeh, but they did have a civil war, to prevent states splitting off.

[FBM]

As a 'merkin, I am equally something towards or perhaps against England, Scotland and that other one, whazzis...Ireland or something?

The Merkins had an answer for separatists. They didn't give a toss about local democracy.
They just said no, and enforced it.
They are better off for it.

That's what we should have done.

Whilst pretending to understand what you're talking about, I would also like to mention Wales. I believe they are connected somehow to something.

I cast suspicious glances at your evident book larnin'. You sure you're one of us?

Your suspicions are indicative of something relevant to the discussion. More research is called for before a conclusive conclusion can be concluded.

Whilst pretending to understand what you're talking about, I would also like to mention Wales. I believe they are connected somehow to something.

I see you don't post any evidence for that.
Why should I take your word for that on trust, without a link or reference?
It might just be something you dreamed last night.

Wiki is on my side.

[Svartalf]

As a 'merkin, I am equally something towards or perhaps against England, Scotland and that other one, whazzis...Ireland or something?

The Merkins had an answer for separatists. They didn't give a toss about local democracy.
They just said no, and enforced it.
They are better off for it.

That's what we should have done.

Nice trolling.

[Red Celt]

Could we please have a whip-round in order to buy mistermack some history books? Amazon gift vouchers, perhaps?

They'd need to cover Scotland and Ireland and the United States.

(rattles a tin)

[mistermack]

Could we please have a whip-round in order to buy mistermack some history books? Amazon gift vouchers, perhaps?

They'd need to cover Scotland and Ireland and the United States.

(rattles a tin)

Oh, right, sorry. So the USA didn't have a civil war when some states wanted to leave the Union.

Who am I thinking of ?

[Red Celt]

Could we please have a whip-round in order to buy mistermack some history books? Amazon gift vouchers, perhaps?

They'd need to cover Scotland and Ireland and the United States.

(rattles a tin)

Oh, right, sorry. So the USA didn't have a civil war when some states wanted to leave the Union.

Who am I thinking of ?

This is what you said:-

Yeh, but they did have a civil war, to prevent states splitting off.

The secession of the Southern states wasn't the cause of the war. It was a symptom of a bigger disunity between the North and the South. Without those states seceding, conflict would still have happened. But fuckit, why bother about books containing facts and things? Just carry on working inside your own reality bubble.

[Santa_Claus]

Yeh, but they did have a civil war, to prevent states splitting off.

That has worked - but only so far. nothing lasts forever.

The further the rulers move away from the people they control the more likely the locals start to get own ideas - mostly centred around: "I can see what's in it for you - but WTF is in it for me? ". Don't matter whether the rulers are in London, in Moscow or in Washington - or whether they are headed by Popes, Princes, Prime Ministers or Presidents.

Of course the Plebs themselves are never capable of succesfully revolting (the rulers can easily find other Plebs to control or kill them) - the danger for the rulers is when they seperate from the Middle Classes. Downside is that the Middle classes don't always win - even when their side wins .

The legality is irrelevant - in the case of the USA, the Federal Government might be able to occupy (and hold) Ohio - but not also Florida, Texas and Kansas.......

....in the case of the USA probably long past the time for the States to collectively decide on a new form of Federal Govt - mostly centred around removing power to tax and borrow.

[mistermack]

The secession of the Southern states wasn't the cause of the war.

Ahem.
Keep that history-book money. Spend it on yourself. Be my guest.
Or else, try a library. It's a place where they let you borrow books. They usually have a history section.

[Red Celt]

Everyone is forgetting one important thing, here...