You guys and your guns...

[Seth]

China is capitalist now, Seth. Hadn't you heard?

Still Communist.

[pErvinalia]

If I was you, i'd claim it as capitalist. That's what all the young hip capitalist do these days. It's economy is shitting all over everyone elses. It also potentially holds the US over it's knee with all it's debt.

But more seriously, it's pretty much universally described as "state capitalist" these days. Although, I personally have troubles distinguishing the point at which capitalism becomes socialism and vice versa.

[Wumbologist]

Seth, what's your take on the Norinco MAK-90? Quality build AK, or something to pass on?

Don't know anything about them, but it's hard to screw up an AK, it's such a simple and reliable (if not very accurate) design. However, I don't favor buying ANY Communist-China made firearm for political reasons. I'm an H&K fan myself.

Glorious Chinese Communist firearm... I might have to go for it.

[Seth]

If I was you, i'd claim it as capitalist. That's what all the young hip capitalist do these days. It's economy is shitting all over everyone elses. It also potentially holds the US over it's knee with all it's debt.

Indeed. Were I in charge, I'd ban all economic trade and repudiate all debts with China tomorrow, and damn the torpedoes.

But more seriously, it's pretty much universally described as "state capitalist" these days. Although, I personally have troubles distinguishing the point at which capitalism becomes socialism and vice versa.

It's simple to distinguish "state capitalism" from "capitalism." One need only determine who owns or controls the means of production and profits. If both are owned and controlled by individuals, it's capitalism. If either is owned or controlled by a central government authority, as in China, it's Communism (state socialism)

China is still a state socialist communist regime that controls (ultimately) all means of production and profits. Norinco, specifically, is an organ of the Chinese military, and the profits go directly to Chinese military expansionism and outright acts of war and sedition within the United States.

In 1994, some employees of Norinco came under federal investigation from both the FBI as well as the ATF after a successful sting dubbed "Operation Dragon Fire." In May 1996, in what was called "the largest seizure of fully operational automatic weapons in U.S. history,"[8] 14 individuals and an Atlanta, Georgia company were indicted for the unlicensed importation and sale of 2,000 Type 56's into the United States. U.S. Customs agents posing as arms traffickers convinced a group of Chinese arms dealers, including three Norinco representatives, that they were in the market to buy guns for drug rings and street gangs.[9] "The defendants offered the government undercover agents more sophisticated weapons, including hand-held rocket launchers, mortars, anti-aircraft missiles, silenced machine guns and even tanks," said Wayne Yamashita of the U.S. Customs Service.[10] The Customs Service discovered during the investigation that these weapons were bound for Oakland, California street gangs.[11] According to an affidavit signed by two of the undercover agents involved in the investigation, representatives from Norinco offered to sell urban gangs shoulder-held missile launchers capable of downing a large commercial airliner.

[Wumbologist]

In 1994, some employees of Norinco came under federal investigation from both the FBI as well as the ATF after a successful sting dubbed "Operation Dragon Fire." In May 1996, in what was called "the largest seizure of fully operational automatic weapons in U.S. history,"[8] 14 individuals and an Atlanta, Georgia company were indicted for the unlicensed importation and sale of 2,000 Type 56's into the United States. U.S. Customs agents posing as arms traffickers convinced a group of Chinese arms dealers, including three Norinco representatives, that they were in the market to buy guns for drug rings and street gangs.[9] "The defendants offered the government undercover agents more sophisticated weapons, including hand-held rocket launchers, mortars, anti-aircraft missiles, silenced machine guns and even tanks," said Wayne Yamashita of the U.S. Customs Service.[10] The Customs Service discovered during the investigation that these weapons were bound for Oakland, California street gangs.[11] According to an affidavit signed by two of the undercover agents involved in the investigation, representatives from Norinco offered to sell urban gangs shoulder-held missile launchers capable of downing a large commercial airliner.

So, pre-94 was the time to get a Type 56...

[Seth]

In 1994, some employees of Norinco came under federal investigation from both the FBI as well as the ATF after a successful sting dubbed "Operation Dragon Fire." In May 1996, in what was called "the largest seizure of fully operational automatic weapons in U.S. history,"[8] 14 individuals and an Atlanta, Georgia company were indicted for the unlicensed importation and sale of 2,000 Type 56's into the United States. U.S. Customs agents posing as arms traffickers convinced a group of Chinese arms dealers, including three Norinco representatives, that they were in the market to buy guns for drug rings and street gangs.[9] "The defendants offered the government undercover agents more sophisticated weapons, including hand-held rocket launchers, mortars, anti-aircraft missiles, silenced machine guns and even tanks," said Wayne Yamashita of the U.S. Customs Service.[10] The Customs Service discovered during the investigation that these weapons were bound for Oakland, California street gangs.[11] According to an affidavit signed by two of the undercover agents involved in the investigation, representatives from Norinco offered to sell urban gangs shoulder-held missile launchers capable of downing a large commercial airliner.

So, pre-94 was the time to get a Type 56...

Nope. They never made it into circulation. Besides, it uses non-standard ammo (US standard that is) so you're better off with a .223/5.56 NATO M-16 variant, for which ammo is commonly available, and also available from dead minions of the tyrant, should it come to that.

[Wumbologist]

Nope. They never made it into circulation. Besides, it uses non-standard ammo (US standard that is) so you're better off with a .223/5.56 NATO M-16 variant, for which ammo is commonly available, and also available from dead minions of the tyrant, should it come to that.

Ah, you're right once again. As glorious as weapons forged by the People's Republic may be, when it comes down to it, the most practical method would be to use weapons taken from fallen enforcers of the bourgeoisie masters we seek to overthrow. Thanks for the insight, comrade.

[Seth]

Nope. They never made it into circulation. Besides, it uses non-standard ammo (US standard that is) so you're better off with a .223/5.56 NATO M-16 variant, for which ammo is commonly available, and also available from dead minions of the tyrant, should it come to that.

Ah, you're right once again. As glorious as weapons forged by the People's Republic may be, when it comes down to it, the most practical method would be to use weapons taken from fallen enforcers of the bourgeoisie masters we seek to overthrow. Thanks for the insight, comrade.

One must always consider battlefield logistics when planning for combat, which is the only reason I own 5.56 NATO caliber firearms, which are mostly unsuitable for my preferred form of combat: long-range sniping. But it's a useful close-combat caliber, so I own a bunch of SIG 556 and Colt AR-15 style rifles, as well as a number of .45 and 9mm caliber handguns. I also have a number of .308/7.62 NATO rifles as well.

Poor planning promotes piss poor performance.

[Blind groper]

Reading Seth's last post reaffirms for me that American gun culture is totally insane.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Reading Seth's last post reaffirms for me that American gun culture is totally insane.

You think that culture is homogenous? That's Seth and I share viewpoints? Really? Or are you just indulging in sweeping generalizations to score a cheap shot?

[Blind groper]

Apologies Gawdzilla.
Seth's version of American gun culture is insane.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Apologies Gawdzilla.
Seth's version of American gun culture is insane.

We agree then.

[Seth]

Reading Seth's last post reaffirms for me that American gun culture is totally insane.

You think that culture is homogenous? That's Seth and I share viewpoints? Really? Or are you just indulging in sweeping generalizations to score a cheap shot?

The latter, of course.

And if one believes one of the purposes of having individual firearms is to turn back domestic tyranny, then my sort of planning is anything but insane, it's perfectly rational.

And since the Founders created the 2nd Amendment in large part to facilitate exactly that sort of action by the people, it's hardly insane to adhere to their ideals, unless you're of the belief that a citizenry should never rise up in arms to put down a tyrant or retake a despotic government that is abusing its grant of authority from the People. That belief would be certifiably insane I'm afraid, and it appears that at least two people here meet that definition, I'm sad to say.

Edit: Make that three, at least.

[Twoflower]

Reading Seth's last post reaffirms for me that American gun culture is totally insane.

You think that culture is homogenous? That's Seth and I share viewpoints? Really? Or are you just indulging in sweeping generalizations to score a cheap shot?

The latter, of course.

And if one believes one of the purposes of having individual firearms is to turn back domestic tyranny, then my sort of planning is anything but insane, it's perfectly rational.

And since the Founders created the 2nd Amendment in large part to facilitate exactly that sort of action by the people, it's hardly insane to adhere to their ideals, unless you're of the belief that a citizenry should never rise up in arms to put down a tyrant or retake a despotic government that is abusing its grant of authority from the People. That belief would be certifiably insane I'm afraid, and it appears that at least two people here meet that definition, I'm sad to say.

Edit: Make that three, at least.

God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.

Thomas Jefferson.

[Blind groper]

History teaches us a simple lesson relating to tyranny.
That is : when it happens and good people rise against it, they find the means to fight with. The people of Syria today, fighting the tyranny of their so-called president, did not have much at all in the way of weapons before the revolution. Today they are defeating a modern army.

The people of the IRA (who I think were mistaken) found the wherewithall to rebel.
There is no need to do what Seth claims he is doing (I do not believe his rationalisations. I think he just has a sick fascination with weapons of murder.) In the extremely unlikely event that the government of the USA became tyrannical, the people would find the means to fight. For a start, as in Syria, half the armed forces would defect and bring their tools of the trade with them. In addition, friends of the rebels in other countries would supply tools and weapons. More weapons would be bought in. Weapons dealers always find a way to supply any rebellion.

For people like Seth to be running round with terrible weapons today is not protection. It is an invitation to disaster, like the nutter who attacked the Batman movie and the white racist who attacked the Sikh temple.