Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:29 am

Geoff wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
The Papal states are the ones morally vindicating all sorts of evil.
Such as?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

User avatar
klr
(%gibber(who=klr, what=Leprageek);)
Posts: 32964
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:25 pm
About me: The money was just resting in my account.
Location: Airstrip Two
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by klr » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:30 am

Seth wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
b) Whether you like it or not, the Vatican is a major diplomatic hub, equal to Paris, London, DC, NYNY or Moscow... cut yourself from it at your own peril.
It is probably the single biggest intelligence operation on the planet. A representative in nearly every parish on the planet. This an their claim to be in charge of hundreds of millions gives them an unwarranted position in the diplomatic world.
Oh, I don't know, the fact that they represent a BILLION Catholics insofar as the interplay between government and religion is a force to be reckoned with and the Vatican's status as a diplomatic powerhouse is hardly "unwarranted."

You might not LIKE the fact that there are a billion Catholics on the planet, or that they can form significant voting blocs around political issues that affect their spiritual lives, but that's just sticking your diplomatic head up your ass, and most nations are not quite that stupid.
Most Catholics in the "First World" don't dance to the Pope's tune. It's probably getting that way in other countries as well, just give it time.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner

The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

:mob: :comp: :mob:

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:31 am

charlou wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:So there shouldn't be any problem if everyone just stopped talking to the Vatican and pretended they didn't exist :tup:
If only I could live to see the day when it was comprehensively treated with the level of respect and consideration it really deserves.
And what "level of respect" is that? And doesn't that disrespect the opinions of a billion people, who have a right to have their interests served and protected?

You all seem to forget that the Catholic church is not just the Vatican or the Pope, it's a billion people spread out all over the world who have a common interest and who have rights.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:32 am

klr wrote:
Seth wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
b) Whether you like it or not, the Vatican is a major diplomatic hub, equal to Paris, London, DC, NYNY or Moscow... cut yourself from it at your own peril.
It is probably the single biggest intelligence operation on the planet. A representative in nearly every parish on the planet. This an their claim to be in charge of hundreds of millions gives them an unwarranted position in the diplomatic world.
Oh, I don't know, the fact that they represent a BILLION Catholics insofar as the interplay between government and religion is a force to be reckoned with and the Vatican's status as a diplomatic powerhouse is hardly "unwarranted."

You might not LIKE the fact that there are a billion Catholics on the planet, or that they can form significant voting blocs around political issues that affect their spiritual lives, but that's just sticking your diplomatic head up your ass, and most nations are not quite that stupid.
Most Catholics in the "First World" don't dance to the Pope's tune. It's probably getting that way in other countries as well, just give it time.
Really? Where do you get that remarkable factoid from?

And isn't that between them and the Pope?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

User avatar
klr
(%gibber(who=klr, what=Leprageek);)
Posts: 32964
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:25 pm
About me: The money was just resting in my account.
Location: Airstrip Two
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by klr » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:39 am

Seth wrote:
klr wrote:
Seth wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
b) Whether you like it or not, the Vatican is a major diplomatic hub, equal to Paris, London, DC, NYNY or Moscow... cut yourself from it at your own peril.
It is probably the single biggest intelligence operation on the planet. A representative in nearly every parish on the planet. This an their claim to be in charge of hundreds of millions gives them an unwarranted position in the diplomatic world.
Oh, I don't know, the fact that they represent a BILLION Catholics insofar as the interplay between government and religion is a force to be reckoned with and the Vatican's status as a diplomatic powerhouse is hardly "unwarranted."

You might not LIKE the fact that there are a billion Catholics on the planet, or that they can form significant voting blocs around political issues that affect their spiritual lives, but that's just sticking your diplomatic head up your ass, and most nations are not quite that stupid.
Most Catholics in the "First World" don't dance to the Pope's tune. It's probably getting that way in other countries as well, just give it time.
Really? Where do you get that remarkable factoid from?

And isn't that between them and the Pope?
It's not a factoid. The likes of Ireland, Spain and Italy are nominally Catholic through-and-through to judge by census returns, and the claims of the RC church itself. But by any meaningful metric you choose to examine: Regular church attendance (or lack thereof), take-up of divorce, use of contraception ... forget it. Actions speak volumes: They obviously don't give a shit what the Pope says.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner

The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

:mob: :comp: :mob:

User avatar
Horwood Beer-Master
"...a complete Kentish hog"
Posts: 7061
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:49 am

Seth wrote:...doesn't that disrespect the opinions of a billion people...
meh
Image

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:02 am

klr wrote: It's not a factoid. The likes of Ireland, Spain and Italy are nominally Catholic through-and-through to judge by census returns, and the claims of the RC church itself. But by any meaningful metric you choose to examine: Regular church attendance (or lack thereof), take-up of divorce, use of contraception ... forget it. Actions speak volumes: They obviously don't give a shit what the Pope says.
And still, there's a billion of 'em who claim membership. A potent force no matter how you cut it, particularly if they all get pissed off about the same thing. Nations are wise to acknowledge this and keep open diplomatic relations with the Vatican.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

User avatar
Geoff
Pouncer
Posts: 9374
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:39 pm
Location: Wigan, UK
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Geoff » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:20 am

Seth wrote:
Geoff wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
The Papal states are the ones morally vindicating all sorts of evil.
Such as?
Start with the Cloyne report and the Vatican's reactions to it...
Image
"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger

User avatar
Cormac
Posts: 6415
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Cormac » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:59 am

Seth wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
b) Whether you like it or not, the Vatican is a major diplomatic hub, equal to Paris, London, DC, NYNY or Moscow... cut yourself from it at your own peril.
It is probably the single biggest intelligence operation on the planet. A representative in nearly every parish on the planet. This an their claim to be in charge of hundreds of millions gives them an unwarranted position in the diplomatic world.
Oh, I don't know, the fact that they represent a BILLION Catholics insofar as the interplay between government and religion is a force to be reckoned with and the Vatican's status as a diplomatic powerhouse is hardly "unwarranted."

You might not LIKE the fact that there are a billion Catholics on the planet, or that they can form significant voting blocs around political issues that affect their spiritual lives, but that's just sticking your diplomatic head up your ass, and most nations are not quite that stupid.
That claim to a billion Catholics is not necessarily warranted, being based on all those baptised, and seeing that Ratzinger closed off the exit a couple of years ago. The church will no longer acknowledge that people gave renounced baptism and formally left the church.

The Vatican does not command a disciplined voting bloc, which is one positive result of cognitive dissonance.

The Irish response is appropriate, given the Vatican's interference in the course of justice in Ireland, and its refusal to cooperate with state investigations.

But the reason for the closure is far less juicy. Ireland has maintained two embassies in Rome, and now we'll maintain one, which is appropriate given the state of our financial affairs at home.
FUCKERPUNKERSHIT!


Wanna buy some pegs Dave, I've got some pegs here...
You're my wife now!

User avatar
Cormac
Posts: 6415
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by Cormac » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:09 am

Seth wrote:
klr wrote: It's not a factoid. The likes of Ireland, Spain and Italy are nominally Catholic through-and-through to judge by census returns, and the claims of the RC church itself. But by any meaningful metric you choose to examine: Regular church attendance (or lack thereof), take-up of divorce, use of contraception ... forget it. Actions speak volumes: They obviously don't give a shit what the Pope says.
And still, there's a billion of 'em who claim membership. A potent force no matter how you cut it, particularly if they all get pissed off about the same thing. Nations are wise to acknowledge this and keep open diplomatic relations with the Vatican.
Most Catholics couldn't give a toss about what the pope says. Certainly most Irish Catholics don't.

And that billion Catholics statistic is wildly inflated, based as it is on baptism records and census stats which include "cultural catholics" amongst their number.

And in any case, most of those Catholics have excommunicated themselves, according to Ratzinger himself.
FUCKERPUNKERSHIT!


Wanna buy some pegs Dave, I've got some pegs here...
You're my wife now!

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 74293
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

Post by JimC » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:00 am

Some of my best friends are catholics...

Quite true!

But it's still all woo...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests