Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[Coito ergo sum]

Minimum wage not based on age in the US?, here in the UK it rises until you are 21 so the idea that minimum wage = childs wage is absurb.

Most States have a graduated minimum wage of that sort.

About a million people out of a workforce of aroudn 30 million earn it but many people managed to get more on social security than minimum wage. The sad fact is so much that isnt enough work (which is true) but the fact society simply doesnt need a significant % of people. Machines do unskilled and semi skilled work that people would have done in the past.

Whether serving a Big Mac 'deserves' minimum wage is irrelevant when its getting to the point here were soon you will need a degree to be even considered for such a position

Those jockeying the windows of every Burger King or McDonalds I've seen are always teenagers, or college students. Most college students are beyond fast food, though. They'd prefer to go work at one of the 1000 bars and restaurants around every college campus, and make two or three times as much. There is a high turnover rate among the staff at restaurants, so there is usually a way to get a job there.

If you're 30 years old and working the window at McDonalds - your problem is you. I know that's not a popular thing to say around here, but please, let's at least agree on that....

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you're 30 years old and working the window at McDonalds - your problem is you. I know that's not a popular thing to say around here, but please, let's at least agree on that....

So the out-of-work folks at the Chrysler plant who actually go out and get another job, of any kind, are the problem. Not the corporations who built cars nobody wanted?

[Coito ergo sum]

Minimum wage not based on age in the US?, here in the UK it rises until you are 21 so the idea that minimum wage = childs wage is absurb.

No. It's the same for any worker in the workforce, but the minimum varies by place.

Some states have lower minimum wages for minors.

[Coito ergo sum]

If you're 30 years old and working the window at McDonalds - your problem is you. I know that's not a popular thing to say around here, but please, let's at least agree on that....

So the out-of-work folks at the Chrysler plant who actually go out and get another job, of any kind, are the problem. Not the corporations who built cars nobody wanted?

Not sure how you got that from what I posted.

There is a reason we don't see many 30 year old, non-disabled, folks bagging groceries at the supermarket or asking you if you want fries with that. Almost everyone over 30 can easily earn more money than those jobs pay by doing something else.

Moreover, UAW workers who are laid off make about 80% of their pay while sitting at home. I've known a lot of people who have been autoworkers over the last 20 years. They love being out of work. They get most of their pay, and collect partial unemployment to boot, and remain covered by health insurance.

[MattShizzle]

I think everyoneone should make exactly the same wage - regardless of job or lack thereof.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you're 30 years old and working the window at McDonalds - your problem is you. I know that's not a popular thing to say around here, but please, let's at least agree on that....

So the out-of-work folks at the Chrysler plant who actually go out and get another job, of any kind, are the problem. Not the corporations who built cars nobody wanted?

Not sure how you got that from what I posted.

There is a reason we don't see many 30 year old, non-disabled, folks bagging groceries at the supermarket or asking you if you want fries with that. Almost everyone over 30 can easily earn more money than those jobs pay by doing something else.

Moreover, UAW workers who are laid off make about 80% of their pay while sitting at home. I've known a lot of people who have been autoworkers over the last 20 years. They love being out of work. They get most of their pay, and collect partial unemployment to boot, and remain covered by health insurance.

First, the folks who used to work at the Chrsyler plant are taking any jobs they can find, including McD's drive-through window. A foreman one day, a part-time worker with no benefits the next. They can't "easily earn more money than those jobs pay by doing something else" because there is nothing else. 20,000 unemployed create a glut on the labor pool.

As for being "laid off", they weren't, they were fired. They got unemployment, that's it.

[Coito ergo sum]

If you're 30 years old and working the window at McDonalds - your problem is you. I know that's not a popular thing to say around here, but please, let's at least agree on that....

So the out-of-work folks at the Chrysler plant who actually go out and get another job, of any kind, are the problem. Not the corporations who built cars nobody wanted?

Not sure how you got that from what I posted.

There is a reason we don't see many 30 year old, non-disabled, folks bagging groceries at the supermarket or asking you if you want fries with that. Almost everyone over 30 can easily earn more money than those jobs pay by doing something else.

Moreover, UAW workers who are laid off make about 80% of their pay while sitting at home. I've known a lot of people who have been autoworkers over the last 20 years. They love being out of work. They get most of their pay, and collect partial unemployment to boot, and remain covered by health insurance.

First, the folks who used to work at the Chrsyler plant are taking any jobs they can find, including McD's drive-through window. A foreman one day, a part-time worker with no benefits the next. They can't "easily earn more money than those jobs pay by doing something else" because there is nothing else. 20,000 unemployed create a glut on the labor pool.

I'll need to see proof of that. There aren't any 30 year old autoworkers jockeying the drive-thru around here. Almost all of those tossing fries out the side of buildings around here are under 21. I'll need to be persuaded.

As for being "laid off", they weren't, they were fired. They got unemployment, that's it.

Doubtful. They are covered by UAW contracts, and they don't just get unemployment. They can't just be fired, unless they are fired "for cause." They're not at-will employees. They can be laid off, but they receive far more than mere unemployment.

Moreover - http://www.freep.com/article/20110511/B ... ent-levels GM, Ford, Chrysler adding jobs, near pre-crash employment levels

With General Motors promising Tuesday to add or retain more than 4,000 jobs, the Detroit Three are gaining credence as job creators.

In fact, they're on course to return to the pre-crash employment levels of 2008.

Ford, which restructured without federal aid, now has 76,000 workers -- more than it had in 2008.

Ford also has promised to add 7,000 workers in the next two years, hiring that starts late this year.

Chrysler added 4,300 jobs last year, ending 2010 about 600 shy of its 2008 employment level of 52,200. It also plans to hire 1,000 more.

At GM, U.S. employment stands at 77,000. Based on its forecasts, GM could employ up to 85,000 in the U.S. in the next two years -- closer to the 92,000 it had in 2008.

Sooooo.....it looks like the idea that autoworkers have nowhere to go except the fries and burgers route is not precisely accurate...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'll need to see proof of that. There aren't any 30 year old autoworkers jockeying the drive-thru around here. Almost all of those tossing fries out the side of buildings around here are under 21. I'll need to be persuaded.

St. Louis County has been in double digit unemployment figures for a couple of years now.

As for being "laid off", they weren't, they were fired. They got unemployment, that's it.

Doubtful. They are covered by UAW contracts, and they don't just get unemployment. They can't just be fired, unless they are fired "for cause." They're not at-will employees. They can be laid off, but they receive far more than mere unemployment.

Moreover - http://www.freep.com/article/20110511/B ... ent-levels GM, Ford, Chrysler adding jobs, near pre-crash employment levels

With General Motors promising Tuesday to add or retain more than 4,000 jobs, the Detroit Three are gaining credence as job creators.

In fact, they're on course to return to the pre-crash employment levels of 2008.

Ford, which restructured without federal aid, now has 76,000 workers -- more than it had in 2008.

Ford also has promised to add 7,000 workers in the next two years, hiring that starts late this year.

Chrysler added 4,300 jobs last year, ending 2010 about 600 shy of its 2008 employment level of 52,200. It also plans to hire 1,000 more.

At GM, U.S. employment stands at 77,000. Based on its forecasts, GM could employ up to 85,000 in the U.S. in the next two years -- closer to the 92,000 it had in 2008.

Sooooo.....it looks like the idea that autoworkers have nowhere to go except the fries and burgers route is not precisely accurate...

The factory closed, C.E.S., what's the struggle understand the "no jobs" part of that? It's been torn down and the metal recycled, literally. And those jobs aren't in St. Louis. Here they're scambling to find any jobs they can.

[Coito ergo sum]

I'll need to see proof of that. There aren't any 30 year old autoworkers jockeying the drive-thru around here. Almost all of those tossing fries out the side of buildings around here are under 21. I'll need to be persuaded.

St. Louis County has been in double digit unemployment figures for a couple of years now.

Yes, unemployment is a big problem, I agree with that.

As for being "laid off", they weren't, they were fired. They got unemployment, that's it.

Doubtful. They are covered by UAW contracts, and they don't just get unemployment. They can't just be fired, unless they are fired "for cause." They're not at-will employees. They can be laid off, but they receive far more than mere unemployment.

Moreover - http://www.freep.com/article/20110511/B ... ent-levels GM, Ford, Chrysler adding jobs, near pre-crash employment levels

With General Motors promising Tuesday to add or retain more than 4,000 jobs, the Detroit Three are gaining credence as job creators.

In fact, they're on course to return to the pre-crash employment levels of 2008.

Ford, which restructured without federal aid, now has 76,000 workers -- more than it had in 2008.

Ford also has promised to add 7,000 workers in the next two years, hiring that starts late this year.

Chrysler added 4,300 jobs last year, ending 2010 about 600 shy of its 2008 employment level of 52,200. It also plans to hire 1,000 more.

At GM, U.S. employment stands at 77,000. Based on its forecasts, GM could employ up to 85,000 in the U.S. in the next two years -- closer to the 92,000 it had in 2008.

Sooooo.....it looks like the idea that autoworkers have nowhere to go except the fries and burgers route is not precisely accurate...

The factory closed, C.E.S., what's the struggle understand the "no jobs" part of that? It's been torn down and the metal recycled, literally. And those jobs aren't in St. Louis. Here they're scambling to find any jobs they can.

Because there are jobs, as I pointed out. There is more than one factory - there are lots of them all over the country. People move.

Moreover, if you are suggesting that the McDonalds restaurant drive through windows are now being filled by middle aged laid off auto workers, then you really will need to prove that, rather than just assert it.

For example - check out this article about an auto worker named Ken Norton whose "severance package is starting to dwindle" - 2 years after he was let go from the Fenton facility that was torn down. http://www.ksdk.com/rss/article/268939/ ... -auto-jobs - Two years of severance ain't bad, and he had 2 years of unemployment compensation. He did not work for McDonalds.

And, GM is expanding in that area too. http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 0f31a.html

This former Chrysler employee took a job selling Chryslers at a dealership: http://www.stltoday.com/business/articl ... 5a115.html - That's a lot better paying job than the McD's window...

Many ex-Chrysler workers continue to collect unemployment and severance benefits; others are laboring at part-time jobs or have landed in Chrysler plants elsewhere. And a significant number have begun the process of reinventing themselves.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/business/articl ... z1aOiTeHw1

So, let's be clear that "they got unemployment and that's it" - that was incorrect. And, I've yet to see any evidence that all these middle-aged Chrysler employees are now serving tacos at the Taco Bell.

I do not - just to be clear - minimize the difficulty in being laid off or let go and having to scramble to land on one's feet. I've been there. I get it. That doesn't mean, however, that I will accept out of hand the allegation that qualified, experienced auto workers have transitioned into the fast food burger flipping industry making minimum wage, because there just isn't any evidence that that is true.

[Seth]

I think everyoneone should make exactly the same wage - regardless of job or lack thereof.

That's not a wage, that's the dole, and all that does is to create generational servitude to the government. And who, exactly, is going to bother to create all the wealth that's required to give such a standard wage to everyone? When there is no incentive to work hard in order to make a better wage, people quickly begin doing the least amount of work possible. If you give it to them for not working at all, as you are suggesting, nobody will work and no wealth will be created and the society will quickly fail. Just ask the Soviet Union how it worked out for them.

[Seth]

I'll need to see proof of that. There aren't any 30 year old autoworkers jockeying the drive-thru around here. Almost all of those tossing fries out the side of buildings around here are under 21. I'll need to be persuaded.

St. Louis County has been in double digit unemployment figures for a couple of years now.

Sounds like people need to move out of St. Louis and go where there is work.

[Clinton Huxley]

I'll need to see proof of that. There aren't any 30 year old autoworkers jockeying the drive-thru around here. Almost all of those tossing fries out the side of buildings around here are under 21. I'll need to be persuaded.

St. Louis County has been in double digit unemployment figures for a couple of years now.

Sounds like people need to move out of St. Louis and go where there is work.

China? Good idea.

[Svartalf]

I think everyoneone should make exactly the same wage - regardless of job or lack thereof.

That's not a wage, that's the dole, and all that does is to create generational servitude to the government. And who, exactly, is going to bother to create all the wealth that's required to give such a standard wage to everyone? When there is no incentive to work hard in order to make a better wage, people quickly begin doing the least amount of work possible. If you give it to them for not working at all, as you are suggesting, nobody will work and no wealth will be created and the society will quickly fail. Just ask the Soviet Union how it worked out for them.

If you're working, it's a wage.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think everyoneone should make exactly the same wage - regardless of job or lack thereof.

LOL - and, Steve Jobs would have spent almost all of his waking hours revolutionizing the computer industry and creating a company that employed 10s of thousands of people over the years because......he'd be entitled to the same wage as he would be entitled to if he sat home and flipped the channels.... gotcha...

Once, folks stop working because you're entitled to the same wage for not working, as working, who is going to pay the people who aren't working?

Frankly, if I couldn't make any more money by going to work than not working, I'd damn well stop paying rent for my office, cut off the phone and cancel my office internet costs, and other business expenses, because it would be all for naught. I could stay home and write bad poetry and still make the same money.

[MattShizzle]

How exactly is someone with no income supposed to be able to afford to move?