Dawkins on Alien Rubbish

[Atheist-Lite]

That just means you are chicken.

[Gawd]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

[Atheist-Lite]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

[Hermit]

He repeatedly describes women wearing the niqab as bin liners. He dehumanises muslims to the status of rubbish. He uses the judeo-christian concept of evil to insult islam. These are facts.

They are not. He describes the niquab that women wear as bin liners. To islamic males the women are inferior forms of existence, to be kept out of sight like rubbish with bin liners. Dawkins regards them as victims of islamic oppression. They are very much humans to him.

Even the article Crumple linked to makes it clear that the alien rubbish Dawkins refers to are faith schools generally and the Koran in particular. In this context he clearly means 'alien rubbish' to mean 'ideas alien to modern thinking' which is what you quoted from your choice of dictionary.

Every person I met believes if there is any disagreement between the Koran and science, then the Koran wins.

'It's just utterly deplorable. These are now British children who are having their minds stuffed with alien rubbish.

That is not insulting Muslims (although they may well choose to feel insulted, just like some Christians do when it is pointed out to them how useless it is to use Genesis to determine the age of the universe). The 'alien rubbish' clearly refers to the Koran in the context of what Dawkins was actually quoted as saying. The context makes that incontrovertible.

It's not how he is likely to be interpreted by the less erudite. The average Daily Mail reader isn't going to think the content of the book is alien rubbish - they'll think 'illegal aliens' bringing in 'rubbish' and the question is did Dawkins do this o'purpose?

This is true. Dawkins should have explicitly said what he didn't mean when he used the term 'alien rubbish', but perhaps he did and the newspaper conveniently omitted it in their reportage. We are talking about the Daily Mail after all.

Also, I was not addressing what the stereotypical Daily Mail reader might think. My reply was directed at what Exi5tensialist said.

[JimC]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

So, Gawd, is this you edging towards admitting that you are a muslim of a somewhat fundamentalist stripe? Or perhaps a remnant Tamil Tiger, the only other recent group with a predilection for suicide bombing I know of...

Looking forward to your quota of virgins?

[Gawd]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

So, Gawd, is this you edging towards admitting that you are a muslim of a somewhat fundamentalist stripe? Or perhaps a remnant Tamil Tiger, the only other recent group with a predilection for suicide bombing I know of...

Looking forward to your quota of virgins?

You think I'm a Muslim fundy? Well Jim, by your illogic, you are a Christian fundy.

[JimC]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

So, Gawd, is this you edging towards admitting that you are a muslim of a somewhat fundamentalist stripe? Or perhaps a remnant Tamil Tiger, the only other recent group with a predilection for suicide bombing I know of...

Looking forward to your quota of virgins?

You think I'm a Muslim fundy? Well Jim, by your logic, you are a Christian fundy.

I haven't threatened to blow up abortion clinics or burn Korans, so no evidence of being a Christian fundy that way...

But expressing an interest in being a suicide bomber is somewhat suggestive of a religious stance that usually accompanies such actions...

And it sure ain't Quaker...

[Azathoth]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

So, Gawd, is this you edging towards admitting that you are a muslim of a somewhat fundamentalist stripe? Or perhaps a remnant Tamil Tiger, the only other recent group with a predilection for suicide bombing I know of...

Looking forward to your quota of virgins raisins?

[JimC]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

So, Gawd, is this you edging towards admitting that you are a muslim of a somewhat fundamentalist stripe? Or perhaps a remnant Tamil Tiger, the only other recent group with a predilection for suicide bombing I know of...

Looking forward to your quota of virgins raisins?

You've destroyed his raison d'etre!

[Gawd]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

So, Gawd, is this you edging towards admitting that you are a muslim of a somewhat fundamentalist stripe? Or perhaps a remnant Tamil Tiger, the only other recent group with a predilection for suicide bombing I know of...

Looking forward to your quota of virgins?

You think I'm a Muslim fundy? Well Jim, by your logic, you are a Christian fundy.

I haven't threatened to blow up abortion clinics or burn Korans, so no evidence of being a Christian fundy that way...

But expressing an interest in being a suicide bomber is somewhat suggestive of a religious stance that usually accompanies such actions...

And it sure ain't Quaker...

If I was a Quaker, I would be raping little children in the residential schools......worse than what a suicide bomber does.

And don't you remember Jim? The Japanese are a nation of suicide bombers and they aren't that religious.

[JimC]

Death is nothing to be afraid of. I'd rather become a suicide bomber than die of old age, bedridden, or locked up.

So, Gawd, is this you edging towards admitting that you are a muslim of a somewhat fundamentalist stripe? Or perhaps a remnant Tamil Tiger, the only other recent group with a predilection for suicide bombing I know of...

Looking forward to your quota of virgins?

You think I'm a Muslim fundy? Well Jim, by your logic, you are a Christian fundy.

I haven't threatened to blow up abortion clinics or burn Korans, so no evidence of being a Christian fundy that way...

But expressing an interest in being a suicide bomber is somewhat suggestive of a religious stance that usually accompanies such actions...

And it sure ain't Quaker...

If I was a Quaker, I would be raping little children in the residential schools......worse than what a suicide bomber does.

And don't you remember Jim? The Japanese are a nation of suicide bombers and they aren't that religious.

Well, they did have a Shinto blessing on it, but you're right, it was primarily nationalism...

(and as to the Quaker business, haven't heard of that - got a link?)

[Atheist-Lite]

Gawd, this really needs its own thread now you've found your vocation in life. Have you chosen a target yet? Is it gonna be a small potatoe or are you gonna be ambitious? You must have been thinking about this a lot to bring it up here? Are you gonna wait for the Republicans to get back in or mess up Obamas track record of peace?

[charlou]

"Alien" is a choice of words that Dawkins deliberately uses because of its ambiguous meaning. Of course, Dawkins doesn't mean "foreign" or "not English" does he? He must mean the other meaning of alien - "foreign" and "not English". What a charmer.

I took it as "alien to science".

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... ad#p997255

Great mind think alike.

...and so do ours!

Knowing the ambiguity, Dawkins could just have said "alien to science".

Dawkins is not known for dumbing his ideas down to suit the lowest denominator. That might be considered as elitist, but I don't think that's the case. I think he simply expects people to make some intellectual effort rather than have every detail spelled out for them.

Let's face it, Dawkins isn't stupid. Islamophobia has become a substitute for racism in our politically correct times, and Dawkins will squeeze every gram of advantage out of such an ambiguity in order to raise his profile.

Yours is an opinion I don't share.

[charlou]

Knowing the ambiguity, Dawkins could just have said "alien to science".

Let's face it, Dawkins isn't stupid. Islamophobia has become a substitute for racism in our politically correct times, and Dawkins will squeeze every gram of advantage out of such an ambiguity in order to raise his profile.

So, you don't think he has a point?

There is, of course, a meaning of the word 'alien' other than just 'foreign'. That is 'not of the planet' - i.e. non-human. Given the way that he likes to describe women wearing a niqab as 'bin liners', again dehumanising them to the status of rubbish, I think his latest outburst is entirely consistent with his broadly western-supremacist politics. I'm not surprised you think he has a point.

re the bit I've bolded ... Can you post links or some evidence to where RD has done this, please.

I'm after evidence as well as context.

[charlou]

I suspect DAwkins has an even older dictionary than me.

Actually I suspect it's the OED on an iPhone, so there's no excuse really, is there?

Ah, well, there's a lot of supposition in this thread.

There is some supposition on both sides, I wouldn't say "a lot."

My suppositions are reasonable and based on evidence of Dawkins's previous behaviour as a confirmed islamophobic bigot. Others are based on blind faith in the man, and denying the evidence of his right-wing agenda.

"islamophobic bigot" ... Can you explain just what it is that RD is being "bigotted" about that you disagree with, and why you disagree with his concerns.