US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It Out

[Coito ergo sum]

[MrJonno]

Writing this from Poland on my holiday at the moment,

its a country thats highly nationalistic and religious much like the US, its had 30% of its population exterminated in WW2 , has been wiped of the map on a regular basis unlike Seth knows exactly what real tyrants are and strangely its still not insane enough to allow people to possess or handguns, usual rural shotgun stuff

[Clinton Huxley]

I presume the statement that "you cant do something about a unless you also do something about b", even if a and b are unconnected is some kind of logical fallacy.

Nice attempt at misrepresentation.

The argument goes as follows:-

The reason for banning guns is because they are dangerous and kill people (irrespective of the initial reasons for their invention).

Your reasons should be applied to all else (e.g. cars) otherwise it becomes an arbitrary and wilful abuse of power.

I’ve been caught by Christians with the same type of argument.
“you must respect other’s beliefs”
“Ok what about the belief that one should stone to death a woman caught in adultery. Must I respect that?”
“Ah well obviously that’s different”

Please don’t keep re-iterating the same arguments as if you’ve suddenly spotted a flaw in my argument. It’s little better than throwing out embarrassingly incorrect failed sarcasm.


Can you also clear up the meaning of your ‘catch-22’ reference?

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

Are you are saying I can't do something about A unless I also do something about B, because A and B have some spurious connection?

Ok.

But C has the same spurious connection.

And D

And E...Z

So,

To confirm, I can't call for something to be done about A unless I contemporaneously call for similar or equivalent things to be done about B...Z?

I wonder how you manage to get out of bed in the morning....

[Gallstones]

Writing this from Poland on my holiday at the moment,

its a country thats highly nationalistic and religious much like the US, its had 30% of its population exterminated in WW2 , has been wiped of the map on a regular basis unlike Seth knows exactly what real tyrants are and strangely its still not insane enough to allow people to possess or handguns, usual rural shotgun stuff

My favorite person in the world is Polish-ish.

In case you haven't noticed, the US is not Poland. We do things our own way for our own reasons.
We tend to not let other nations tell us what is best for us--we tell you.

Go figure.

[Clinton Huxley]

Writing this from Poland on my holiday at the moment,

its a country thats highly nationalistic and religious much like the US, its had 30% of its population exterminated in WW2 , has been wiped of the map on a regular basis unlike Seth knows exactly what real tyrants are and strangely its still not insane enough to allow people to possess or handguns, usual rural shotgun stuff

My favorite person in the world is Polish-ish.

In case you haven't noticed, the US is not Poland. We do things our own way for our own reasons.
We tend to not let other nations tell us what is best for us--we tell you.

Go figure.

Yeah, the US tells other nations what to do....and it usually works out really well.

[Gallstones]

Writing this from Poland on my holiday at the moment,

its a country thats highly nationalistic and religious much like the US, its had 30% of its population exterminated in WW2 , has been wiped of the map on a regular basis unlike Seth knows exactly what real tyrants are and strangely its still not insane enough to allow people to possess or handguns, usual rural shotgun stuff

My favorite person in the world is Polish-ish.

In case you haven't noticed, the US is not Poland. We do things our own way for our own reasons.
We tend to not let other nations tell us what is best for us--we tell you.

Go figure.

Yeah, the US tells other nations what to do....and it usually works out really well.

A person could, if they were of a mind, locate his/her sense of humor and not take things so fucking seriously.
Humor feels better than bitterness.

[Seth]

Writing this from Poland on my holiday at the moment,

its a country thats highly nationalistic and religious much like the US, its had 30% of its population exterminated in WW2 , has been wiped of the map on a regular basis unlike Seth knows exactly what real tyrants are and strangely its still not insane enough to allow people to possess or handguns, usual rural shotgun stuff

My favorite person in the world is Polish-ish.

In case you haven't noticed, the US is not Poland. We do things our own way for our own reasons.
We tend to not let other nations tell us what is best for us--we tell you.

Go figure.

Yeah, the US tells other nations what to do....and it usually works out really well.

It does when they listen to us.

[Seth]

Writing this from Poland on my holiday at the moment,

its a country thats highly nationalistic and religious much like the US, its had 30% of its population exterminated in WW2 , has been wiped of the map on a regular basis unlike Seth knows exactly what real tyrants are and strangely its still not insane enough to allow people to possess or handguns, usual rural shotgun stuff

Of course it's beyond Mrjonno's ken WHY, exactly, it's been "wiped off the map on a regular basis" and had "30% of its population exterminated in WW2."

Poland is the poster-child that amply demonstrates the fundamental principle of history that an unarmed civilian populace is subject to being "wiped off the map on a regular basis" by anyone that wishes to do so and isn't quite so scrupulous about being a sheeple.

The Poles, it seems, never learn their lesson...but Switzerland and Israel and the US have.

Interesting fact: Neither Switzerland, Israel nor the US have been "wiped off the map" even once, much less on a "regular basis."

There's an important clue there for those with the wit to understand it, which let's MrJonno out.

Me, I'm on my way Monday to Knob Creek, Kentucky, right next to Fort Knox, for the semi-annual machine gun shoot and military gun show where I intend to celebrate my fundamental, unalienable, natural human right to keep and bear arms by shooting several thousand rounds of ammunition from a variety of semi and fully-automatic weapons over three days.

The sheeple may be aghast, but it's going to be a blast! Literally.

[Seth]

I presume the statement that "you cant do something about a unless you also do something about b", even if a and b are unconnected is some kind of logical fallacy.

Nice attempt at misrepresentation.

The argument goes as follows:-

The reason for banning guns is because they are dangerous and kill people (irrespective of the initial reasons for their invention).

Your reasons should be applied to all else (e.g. cars) otherwise it becomes an arbitrary and wilful abuse of power.

I’ve been caught by Christians with the same type of argument.
“you must respect other’s beliefs”
“Ok what about the belief that one should stone to death a woman caught in adultery. Must I respect that?”
“Ah well obviously that’s different”

Please don’t keep re-iterating the same arguments as if you’ve suddenly spotted a flaw in my argument. It’s little better than throwing out embarrassingly incorrect failed sarcasm.


Can you also clear up the meaning of your ‘catch-22’ reference?

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

Are you are saying I can't do something about A unless I also do something about B, because A and B have some spurious connection?

Ok.

But C has the same spurious connection.

And D

And E...Z

So,

To confirm, I can't call for something to be done about A unless I contemporaneously call for similar or equivalent things to be done about B...Z?

I wonder how you manage to get out of bed in the morning....

No, the point, which continuously eludes you, is that it is both highly irrational and grossly hypocritical to rant on about gun control when, factually speaking, there are so many other instruments and object that are so much more dangerous that do not receive the same sort of foam-flecked, hysterical, hyperbolic, paranoid ravings that the hoplophobes level against firearms, particularly given the fact the vast, vast majority of which (more than 99.999%) never harm anyone, and a significant number of which which are used as many as two million times per year in the US by law-abiding citizens to PREVENT harm by deterring and defending against violent criminal assault, the majority of the time without ever being fired.

The degree of borderline-insane hyperbole and demented hatred aimed at law-abiding gun owners by hoplophobes is as completely irrational and unreasonable as an atheist ranting and raving against God because he didn't win the lottery.

It's unreasoning hatred that has not even a tenuous connection to sanity or reality.

And the worst thing about it is that those who perpetuate the lies of the anti-gun faction don't give a flying fuck about anyone else's safety, they are more than willing to sacrifice their own fellow citizens to the predation of armed criminals simply because they have an unreasoning and clinically-paranoid fear of firearms, and they use the law to do so, which violates the fundamental, unalienable, natural human right of each and every individual to keep and bear arms in defense of their families, themselves, and their nation.

It's a disgusting display of mentally-deranged narcissistic selfishness.

That's the point that you keep missing.

[Gallstones]

Writing this from Poland on my holiday at the moment,

its a country thats highly nationalistic and religious much like the US, its had 30% of its population exterminated in WW2 , has been wiped of the map on a regular basis unlike Seth knows exactly what real tyrants are and strangely its still not insane enough to allow people to possess or handguns, usual rural shotgun stuff

Of course it's beyond Mrjonno's ken WHY, exactly, it's been "wiped off the map on a regular basis" and had "30% of its population exterminated in WW2."

Poland is the poster-child that amply demonstrates the fundamental principle of history that an unarmed civilian populace is subject to being "wiped off the map on a regular basis" by anyone that wishes to do so and isn't quite so scrupulous about being a sheeple.

The Poles, it seems, never learn their lesson...but Switzerland and Israel and the US have.

Interesting fact: Neither Switzerland, Israel nor the US have been "wiped off the map" even once, much less on a "regular basis."

There's an important clue there for those with the wit to understand it, which let's MrJonno out.

Me, I'm on my way Monday to Knob Creek, Kentucky, right next to Fort Knox, for the semi-annual machine gun shoot and military gun show where I intend to celebrate my fundamental, unalienable, natural human right to keep and bear arms by shooting several thousand rounds of ammunition from a variety of semi and fully-automatic weapons over three days.

The sheeple may be aghast, but it's going to be a blast! Literally.

I am so fucking jealous.

[colubridae]

I presume the statement that "you cant do something about a unless you also do something about b", even if a and b are unconnected is some kind of logical fallacy.

Nice attempt at misrepresentation.

The argument goes as follows:-

The reason for banning guns is because they are dangerous and kill people (irrespective of the initial reasons for their invention).

Your reasons should be applied to all else (e.g. cars) otherwise it becomes an arbitrary and wilful abuse of power.

I’ve been caught by Christians with the same type of argument.
“you must respect other’s beliefs”
“Ok what about the belief that one should stone to death a woman caught in adultery. Must I respect that?”
“Ah well obviously that’s different”

Please don’t keep re-iterating the same arguments as if you’ve suddenly spotted a flaw in my argument. It’s little better than throwing out embarrassingly incorrect failed sarcasm.


Can you also clear up the meaning of your ‘catch-22’ reference?

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

Are you are saying I can't do something about A unless I also do something about B, because A and B have some spurious connection?

Ok.

But C has the same spurious connection.

And D

And E...Z

So,

To confirm, I can't call for something to be done about A unless I contemporaneously call for similar or equivalent things to be done about B...Z?

I wonder how you manage to get out of bed in the morning....

Sigh.
I’m not sure whether you are doing a mistermack or not.
Be that as it may, I will try once again.

I specifically said ‘banning’ something is a very ‘dangerous’ area to get into. [/irony]
You better be certain that your reasons for banning something apply across the board.

If you ban something for a specific reason (i.e. ban guns, especially hand-guns because their usage is dangerous and often fatal) then if you don’t apply that specific criteria to other things (i.e. things whose usage is dangerous and causes fatalities e.g. cars, which are arguably far more dangerous because their usage produces more fatalities) then such a ban is merely an arbitrary and wilful abuse of power.
You personally think that your ban is perfectly valid. You don’t consider a car ban valid because you enjoy car usage, even though they cause many more fatalities.



You should also consider other items, such as knives archery, where the specific reason for banning occurs.
These items however may be considered less dangerous since their usage causes fewer fatalities.

The argument with cars is much stronger because their usage causes many more fatalities.

And I can back up the arbitrary nature of the gun/car difference and refute any argument based on positive usage.
If I tried to introduce a world changing device such as a ‘star-trek transporter’, if I say ‘by the way it will kill 1.3 million worldwide per year’ no country would allow such a device.

Nowhere have I said that you must apply every action performed on A to every item B. Your saying such is, as I said, a wilful miss-representation of my words.

My specific point centres around a highly specific action – banning - prevention of someone going about their business.
I would not think that if you wanted to paint your car red you must paint your car keys red.

Certainly misusing a gun should be against the law.
Owning one for self-defence should be within the law.


Just in case:- My point is against banning in private. I should make that clear, I assume it was.
Banning the use of cigarettes in public places, is as I have said legitimate.
Possessing cigarettes in public places is a different matter.

[colubridae]

Clinton Huxley

You were very rude in your last post to me.

Are you being wilfully obtuse?
…
I wonder how you manage to get out of bed in the morning....

I realise I have been responding in kind and should not have been. For that I apologise.

However I did respond to your last post concerning the issue, with an explanation.

Do you now understand my point?

If so do you agree with it or not?

If you don’t respond can I assume that you concede the point?
You seem to be one of the more sensible opponents of guns.
If my efforts get you to alter your views, even marginally, then they have been worthwhile.
If people watching our exchange see your reluctance to respond, it might demonstrate to them that even a sensible chap, such as yourself, is unable to maintain a valid argument against gun ownership.


Please can you also clear up the question of your catch-22 reference.

[Clinton Huxley]

My dear boy, I've been a tad grumpy in this thread, so apologies. I fully understand your car argument. I disagree with it in practice. I think it is a separate issue. As for gun ownership, I'm not convinced its a good idea and I'm happy that UK law restricts it.

Further, I admit, I just do personally find people who like guns are a bit weird and the rabidity of the responses from some hoplomaniacs does nothing to change my mind.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

My dear boy, I've been a tad grumpy in this thread, so apologies. I fully understand your car argument. I disagree with it in practice. I think it is a separate issue. As for gun ownership, I'm not convinced its a good idea and I'm happy that UK law restricts it.

If you had been raised in another country you would be happy that guns aren't restricted. (That's a play on the "my country's god is the real one" meme, btw.)

Further, I admit, I just do personally find people who like guns are a bit weird and the rabidity of the responses from some hoplomaniacs does nothing to change my mind.

Clinton, I got early training in gun safety, as well as theory and practice from a master of the beasts. His grandson now teaches at a certain sniper school some of us have seen on the TV. I wish that motor vehicle operators were given the same level of training before they were put in control of a few tons of hurtling metal.

[Clinton Huxley]

My dear boy, I've been a tad grumpy in this thread, so apologies. I fully understand your car argument. I disagree with it in practice. I think it is a separate issue. As for gun ownership, I'm not convinced its a good idea and I'm happy that UK law restricts it.

If you had been raised in another country you would be happy that guns aren't restricted. (That's a play on the "my country's god is the real one" meme, btw.)

Further, I admit, I just do personally find people who like guns are a bit weird and the rabidity of the responses from some hoplomaniacs does nothing to change my mind.

Clinton, I got early training in gun safety, as well as theory and practice from a master of the beasts. His grandson now teaches at a certain sniper school some of us have seen on the TV. I wish that motor vehicle operators were given the same level of training before they were put in control of a few tons of hurtling metal.

I'm perfectly happy for you to have a gun, old chap, so long as you stay that side of the Atlantic.