Benevolent Sexism

[Thinking Aloud]

So, if I'm reading it correctly, "being a gentleman" is now "benevolent sexism". Yay.

[Callan]

So, if I'm reading it correctly, "being a gentleman" is now "benevolent sexism". Yay.

Well, speaking purely personally, of course, I always expect to have to open doors myself.
But if they happen to be held for me, I thank the person (not always a man) graciously and go on my way feeling a little more warmly towards the world in general.
Conversely, when I am the door-holder, I experience homicidal desires when my act of politeness is taken for granted...

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, tough shit, ladies. I'm going to hold the door for you, and I'm going to let Bill, Bob and John fend for themselves. I'm going to help a girl change the tire on her car, but I'm going to assume that Tom, Dick and Harry can change it themselves. I will help women lift heavy things, and men I will generally not offer to help. If they need help, they can ask. If a woman is cold, I will offer her my coat. If a man is cold, he can go fuck himself. Why should I be cold and he warm?

I am going to discriminate against men in my dating habits, because I have no interest in romance with men.

I am, of course, going to govern my speech and off-color humor around women more than men, because I don't want to get hit with a sexual harassment suit or have someone complain to HR because I made a humorous reference that a woman didn't like. The men can go fuck themselves.

I will gladly let the women in our golf foursome knock the ball from the "ladies tees" because they'll never make it to the fairway if they don't. And, they already play slow enough, so they need to start up a little bit if we're ever going to get done.

I will not write into the world tennis organization complaining that women play 5 sets, while men play 7 sets.

On dates, I will pick up the check, even though women want equality. Well, let's make that past tense - I almost always paid the check on dates. Women generally don't offer to pick up the check, and when they do it's usually half, and usually it's just a gesture they don't expect you to take them up on....sometimes they offer to "get the tip," which is really just irritating more than anything....but, that's another thread...

I will hold She Who Must Be Obeyed up on a pedestal, sexism be damned! That's why I buy her flowers all the time. I've purchased many women flowers over the years, and not single male has been the recipient of flowers from me. Yes, that is sexist, of course, but some sexism is awesome.

[Rum]

I am kind and considerate to pretty much everyone. I hold open the door for anyone - male or female and I offer my seat on the train or bus (long time since I took a bus mind you) to anyone who looks like they need it more than me - male or female. That just about covers it as far as I am concerned, even though some years ago now - maybe ten years - when I held the door open for a female stranger, she looked daggers at me.

Her problem, not mine.

[Callan]

I am kind and considerate to pretty much everyone. I hold open the door for anyone - male or female and I offer my seat on the train or bus (long time since I took a bus mind you) to anyone who looks like they need it more than me - male or female. That just about covers it as far as I am concerned, even though some years ago now - maybe ten years - when I held the door open for a female stranger, she looked daggers at me.

Her problem, not mine.

Exactly so, m'dear.
Politeness is politeness and should always be rewarded by at the very least a smile of appreciation.
Anything less is rudeness undeserving of the consideration originally displayed.

[Coito ergo sum]

As for this, "Benevolent sexism motivates chivalrous acts that many women may welcome, such as a man's offer to lift heavy boxes or install the new computer. While the path to benevolent sexism may be paved with good intentions, it reinforces the assumption that men possess greater competence than women, whom benevolent sexists view as wonderful, but weak and fragile."

It's not so much an offer to help lift heavy boxes as it is a societal expectation. Even with items that women's musculature could very well handle, the lifting is almost always expected to be done by men. Take the workplace, for example, if a delivery of something or other requires lifting, the men are sent out. I think women would generally almost be offended to be even asked to lug boxes in. In offices, too, women are often walking around in high heeled shoes, which results in poor balance, and relative difficulty in lifting boxes.

Installing computers and such - well, there is no reason women can't learn how to install computers and things, but I have noticed a cultural difference perhaps in the way women and men are raised. I know I was raised with the idea that it is embarrassing to not be able to do something, or at least be able to figure it out. And, I was also raised with the expectation that if things come up that have to be figured out, that I am supposed to do it. Pretty much, asking another guy to do it for you is a sign of being less than capable, less manly. Now, it is acceptable to ask a buddy for help with something like a computer problem - but, you can't do so like "hey, man, my computer is broken, can you fix it for me..." - you have to have tried to do it yourself, and also have some sort of working knowledge of the goings on, so that you can talk intelligently, as if it's not because you're incompetent that you can't fix it - it's larger problem that requires a second brain to be worked out....

I don't get the impression that women are as worried about being unable to do something, and I have noticed women tend to be quicker to ask for help. Often, and this may be cultural, I find that on technical things like computers and electronics, women are very quick to defer to a man. Maybe that's sexism on a societal scale, and we're raising girls to defer to men on the maths and technical stuff. But, I'm not sure how that explains why She Who Must Be Obeyed can't work the remote control on the t.v., except to change channels, and hands the computer to me when something isn't right about it.....

Ah, well....I like being the "lift heavy things" and the "take care of car/lawn maintenance" part of the relationship. Is it sexist that I have to fix the cars and lift the heavy things, and repair/move/replace the appliances as need be and fix/set up the computers? Nope. That's discrimination against men and sexism against men, but, alas, that kind of sexism, to me, is fine and dandy. She cooks more than me, cleans better than me, etc., so she does most of that. Seems like decent trade.

[Audley Strange]

I am kind and considerate to pretty much everyone. I hold open the door for anyone - male or female and I offer my seat on the train or bus (long time since I took a bus mind you) to anyone who looks like they need it more than me - male or female. That just about covers it as far as I am concerned, even though some years ago now - maybe ten years - when I held the door open for a female stranger, she looked daggers at me.

Her problem, not mine.

Yes. Precisely

I'm holding the door open because it's civil thing to do, it doesn't matter who's at the other side. If someone wants to assume some hidden or subconcious motivation to my actions, that's their baggage. I'm beginning to think some of our psychologists are engaged in a form of literary criticism, infering elaborate intent from nothing.

[Coito ergo sum]

I am kind and considerate to pretty much everyone. I hold open the door for anyone - male or female and I offer my seat on the train or bus (long time since I took a bus mind you) to anyone who looks like they need it more than me - male or female. That just about covers it as far as I am concerned, even though some years ago now - maybe ten years - when I held the door open for a female stranger, she looked daggers at me.

Her problem, not mine.

I do the same, about 90%.

I have a different custom for door holding for men than women.

Women: I open the door, and hold the door waiting for her to enter first. If she says thank you, I smile and say "my pleasure" or "you're welcome." If she says nothing and walks through unappreciatively, I think to myself, "bitch." Then I go about my day.

Men: I open the door, walk through, but hold the door on the tips of my fingers until he is close enough where he just about has it (or has it), and then I let it go. I do not stand there holding it for some guy to walk through ahead of me. That just feels weird.

Seats: In a restaurant, I will generally give the half stand the first time a woman enters the room, and be sure to extend a friendly greeting. Traditionally, men were to always rise when a woman rose or sat, but that's too archaic these days. I polite rise when greeting a woman is enough. For men, I will only rise if necessary to reach their hand to shake it. Other than that, I remain seated.

On a train (I've taken a bus once in the last 30 years) like on a subway in New York, I will offer to anyone who needs one more than me, yes. Except that I will always offer my seat to a woman, even if she is as capable of standing as me. It's kind of like the offering of one's coat to a woman but not a man. Unless the guy is injured or just got out of a freezing cold pond he accidentally fell into, he's not getting my coat. A woman will get my coat if she's chilly, even if I will be chilly after giving her my coat.

[maiforpeace]

So, if I'm reading it correctly, "being a gentleman" is now "benevolent sexism". Yay.

Not at all TA. It's all about intention.

I'm all for chivalrous behavior...I engage in it as much as I can and I don't think it's a behavior reserved for men to practice towards women. I suppose it becomes benevolent sexism when a man has some preconceived idea of why a woman should be deserving of such chivalry.

I always assume chivalrous behavior towards me is done out of civility and politeness.

I am kind and considerate to pretty much everyone. I hold open the door for anyone - male or female and I offer my seat on the train or bus (long time since I took a bus mind you) to anyone who looks like they need it more than me - male or female. That just about covers it as far as I am concerned, even though some years ago now - maybe ten years - when I held the door open for a female stranger, she looked daggers at me.

Her problem, not mine.

Yes. Precisely

I'm holding the door open because it's civil thing to do, it doesn't matter who's at the other side. If someone wants to assume some hidden or subconcious motivation to my actions, that's their baggage. I'm beginning to think some of our psychologists are engaged in a form of literary criticism, infering elaborate intent from nothing.

Exactly.

[Bella Fortuna]

I like manners and kindness so I find no reason to complain about door-opening and the like, be it for/by whatever gender. To me that's different than being condescending - quite the opposite, actually.

[Thinking Aloud]

So, if I'm reading it correctly, "being a gentleman" is now "benevolent sexism". Yay.

Not at all TA. It's all about intention.

I'm all for chivalrous behavior...I engage in it as much as I can and I don't think it's a behavior reserved for men to practice towards women. I suppose it becomes benevolent sexism when a man has some preconceived idea of why a woman should be deserving of such chivalry.

Ah, perhaps that's what they mean.

Of course, many males are pre-programmed to attempt to make themselves attractive to the opposite sex, so there's perhaps intent unconsciously hard-wired in chivalrous behaviour, even when there's no conscious intent. But that'd be evolution for you!

[maiforpeace]

As for this, "Benevolent sexism motivates chivalrous acts that many women may welcome, such as a man's offer to lift heavy boxes or install the new computer. While the path to benevolent sexism may be paved with good intentions, it reinforces the assumption that men possess greater competence than women, whom benevolent sexists view as wonderful, but weak and fragile."

It's not so much an offer to help lift heavy boxes as it is a societal expectation. Even with items that women's musculature could very well handle, the lifting is almost always expected to be done by men. Take the workplace, for example, if a delivery of something or other requires lifting, the men are sent out. I think women would generally almost be offended to be even asked to lug boxes in. In offices, too, women are often walking around in high heeled shoes, which results in poor balance, and relative difficulty in lifting boxes.

Installing computers and such - well, there is no reason women can't learn how to install computers and things, but I have noticed a cultural difference perhaps in the way women and men are raised. I know I was raised with the idea that it is embarrassing to not be able to do something, or at least be able to figure it out. And, I was also raised with the expectation that if things come up that have to be figured out, that I am supposed to do it. Pretty much, asking another guy to do it for you is a sign of being less than capable, less manly. Now, it is acceptable to ask a buddy for help with something like a computer problem - but, you can't do so like "hey, man, my computer is broken, can you fix it for me..." - you have to have tried to do it yourself, and also have some sort of working knowledge of the goings on, so that you can talk intelligently, as if it's not because you're incompetent that you can't fix it - it's larger problem that requires a second brain to be worked out....

I don't get the impression that women are as worried about being unable to do something, and I have noticed women tend to be quicker to ask for help. Often, and this may be cultural, I find that on technical things like computers and electronics, women are very quick to defer to a man. Maybe that's sexism on a societal scale, and we're raising girls to defer to men on the maths and technical stuff. But, I'm not sure how that explains why She Who Must Be Obeyed can't work the remote control on the t.v., except to change channels, and hands the computer to me when something isn't right about it.....

Ah, well....I like being the "lift heavy things" and the "take care of car/lawn maintenance" part of the relationship. Is it sexist that I have to fix the cars and lift the heavy things, and repair/move/replace the appliances as need be and fix/set up the computers? Nope. That's discrimination against men and sexism against men, but, alas, that kind of sexism, to me, is fine and dandy. She cooks more than me, cleans better than me, etc., so she does most of that. Seems like decent trade.

You're being too logical.

[Bella Fortuna]

Yeah, just shut up and find some heavy boxes to lift.

[maiforpeace]

Yeah, just shut up and find some heavy boxes to lift.

My car needs an oil change too.

[Bella Fortuna]

Yeah, just shut up and find some heavy boxes to lift.

My car needs an oil change too.

But how will we get out of this room if no one opens the door?