Freedom to snuff it.
- Robert_S
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Freedom to snuff it.
Looking at the discussion over here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 36#p987036 , I wonder:
Under what circumstances should society give its approval of an individual's right to decide when it is time to go?
Under what circumstances should society give its approval of an individual's right to decide when it is time to go?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
- Gallstones
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Thing is, when we consider those who are determined/committed to checking out under their own terms, there is nothing society or the law can do. Whatever they do do will be after the fact.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Except when the person determined/committed to die is physically incapable of doing the act themselves. Then, anyone that assists them in their heartfelt wish is subject to the full majesty of the law. What price freewill and ultimate control over ones destiny then?Gallstones wrote:Thing is, when we consider those who are determined/committed to checking out under their own terms, there is nothing society or the law can do. Whatever they do do will be after the fact.

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This is the wrong forum for bluffing
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Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing

Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Snuff it, time to go, checking out ? ? ?
You aren't talking about people KILLING THEMSELVES, by any chance?
You aren't talking about people KILLING THEMSELVES, by any chance?
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Course not! We're talking about on about cocaine, aren't we?mistermack wrote:Snuff it, time to go, checking out ? ? ?
You aren't talking about people KILLING THEMSELVES, by any chance?

A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing

Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Under any circumstances, so long as they are adults. Children, since they do not enjoy the full panoply of adult civil rights, must be protected from themselves until they are mature enough to make their own decisions, which includes the decision to end their own life.Robert_S wrote:Looking at the discussion over here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 36#p987036 , I wonder:
Under what circumstances should society give its approval of an individual's right to decide when it is time to go?
It's absolutely none of society's business if or when any adult decides to check out. Quite the opposite, in any rational, ethical, compassionate society, the painless, safe and clean means of ending one's life should be freely available to anyone who asks for it. Indeed, we should have centers where people can go to die peacefully, as in "Logan's Run." If possible, the death drugs should be combined with euphorics that give a rush of intense pleasure right before one becomes unconscious, so that one can go out with a song on one's lips.
That's what rational, compassionate people do.
Barbaric, oppressive societies make it difficult, dirty, unsafe and dangerous to commit suicide. One of the latest versions is the "deadly gas" suicide where people brew up a mix of chemicals to create deadly gasses like hydrogen sulfide to kill themselves with. Problem is, they don't tend to take very good care not to let the gasses escape and poison other people. Several neighbors in next-door apartments have died from chemical poisoning from such suicides.
People resort to such desperate measures because it's very difficult to find a way to commit relatively painless suicide in Japan, because they ban guns and control drugs that might do the job.
How barbaric. How unevolved. How irrational and evil.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- Robert_S
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
mistermack wrote:Snuff it, time to go, checking out ? ? ?
You aren't talking about people KILLING THEMSELVES, by any chance?
I'm talking about the voluntary cessation of biological activity.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
- Gallstones
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Well.....one might know that the day is coming and might do the necessary deed before one is incapacitated such that s/he can't affect the desired result on one's own.Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Except when the person determined/committed to die is physically incapable of doing the act themselves. Then, anyone that assists them in their heartfelt wish is subject to the full majesty of the law. What price freewill and ultimate control over ones destiny then?Gallstones wrote:Thing is, when we consider those who are determined/committed to checking out under their own terms, there is nothing society or the law can do. Whatever they do do will be after the fact.
It would always be my choice to affect the desired results under my own volition and under my own power; thus exclude implicating others.
In answer to your question, one's destiny need be affected sooner rather than later--once one sees the writing on the wall.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
DUUUUH , is that a yes or a no?Robert_S wrote:mistermack wrote:Snuff it, time to go, checking out ? ? ?
You aren't talking about people KILLING THEMSELVES, by any chance?
I'm talking about the voluntary cessation of biological activity.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
- Gallstones
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Yes we are talking about killing oneself.......and?mistermack wrote:DUUUUH , is that a yes or a no?Robert_S wrote:mistermack wrote:Snuff it, time to go, checking out ? ? ?
You aren't talking about people KILLING THEMSELVES, by any chance?
I'm talking about the voluntary cessation of biological activity.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
It might not be, though. In cases of catastrophic injuries, for example.Gallstones wrote:Well.....one might know that the day is coming and might do the necessary deed before one is incapacitated such that s/he can't affect the desired result on one's own.Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Except when the person determined/committed to die is physically incapable of doing the act themselves. Then, anyone that assists them in their heartfelt wish is subject to the full majesty of the law. What price freewill and ultimate control over ones destiny then?Gallstones wrote:Thing is, when we consider those who are determined/committed to checking out under their own terms, there is nothing society or the law can do. Whatever they do do will be after the fact.
It would always be my choice to affect the desired results under my own volition and under my own power; thus exclude implicating others.
In answer to your question, one's destiny need be affected sooner rather than later--once one sees the writing on the wall.
It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that's pretty important.
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
I intend to take care of business myself under certain circumstances. But it would get complicated if I was suddenly paralyzed and not only had to rely on someone else, but also put them at risk of being prosecuted if they agreed.
My thoughts about this have been finding some high-grade heroin and purposely over-dosing, at the point where living isn't palatable anymore. But, again, that would only work if I was mobile.
My thoughts about this have been finding some high-grade heroin and purposely over-dosing, at the point where living isn't palatable anymore. But, again, that would only work if I was mobile.
It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that's pretty important.
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
A tad undignified for my tastes; being levitated in some weird carousel thing and vaporised with a laser beam in front of a cheering crowd.Seth wrote:<snip>..... Indeed, we should have centers where people can go to die peacefully, as in "Logan's Run.".... <snip>

Are you sure you're not confusing Logan's Run with Soylent Green?

As for the op - I wouldn't want a person who is terminally ill and suffering to be kept alive against their will. On the other hand, I feel that mentally ill people who may well be suffering from a transient condition can be helped in other ways until they recover. How far it would be reasonable to impose this 'help', I couldn't say.
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Re: Freedom to snuff it.
No, wasn't Soylent Green I think. I'm pretty sure it was Logan's Run, but it might have been another movie. I recall that one of the protagonist's family members goes to a euthanasia facility where he is in a room with a domed ceiling on which his favorite images are projected as he's put to sleep. Now I'm confused.JacksSmirkingRevenge wrote:A tad undignified for my tastes; being levitated in some weird carousel thing and vaporised with a laser beam in front of a cheering crowd.Seth wrote:<snip>..... Indeed, we should have centers where people can go to die peacefully, as in "Logan's Run.".... <snip>![]()
Are you sure you're not confusing Logan's Run with Soylent Green?![]()
As for the op - I wouldn't want a person who is terminally ill and suffering to be kept alive against their will. On the other hand, I feel that mentally ill people who may well be suffering from a transient condition can be helped in other ways until they recover. How far it would be reasonable to impose this 'help', I couldn't say.[/quote]
Why should they be treated if they don't want to be treated? Certainly if you DO want treatment you should get it, but nobody should be involuntarily committed for treatment merely for being suicidal.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Freedom to snuff it.
Yeah. It was Soylent Green. I've never seen Logan's Run.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.
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