What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
The children are collateral damage. That's a term VERY familiar to the US and Israeli military.
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
Hmm.. I thought what I wrote was clear enough. :SIan wrote:PordFrefect wrote:That's nice, but you lack the ability to make it a universal principle.Ian wrote: But when one of them blows up a bus full of civilians in Tel Aviv, I still get to call the bomber a terrorist, no matter what his cause was.
Unless a person using a hammer is a 'hammerist' and a person driving a car is to be a 'driverist'. If you wish to label someone by the tool they use you'll have to justify it as the universal principle you claim it is - address the limitless counter-examples.![]()
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Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
I was writing a long reply to this. But you really aren't worth bothering with. Honestly, I have far more compassion for suicide bombers than I have for those that cheer them on from the shadows.Gawd wrote:I want to see how much you have to criticize about the Palestinians.Xamonas Chegwé wrote: Why would I bother?
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Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
Why is that? They saved you the trouble of killing them?Xamonas Chegwé wrote:I was writing a long reply to this. But you really aren't worth bothering with. Honestly, I have far more compassion for suicide bombers than I have for those that cheer them on from the shadows.Gawd wrote:I want to see how much you have to criticize about the Palestinians.Xamonas Chegwé wrote: Why would I bother?
Unlike you, I am not bigoted, racist and irrationally biased toward one group of humans over another.
.. sorry couldn't resist.

Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
What would you have wrote if this was the time of Apartheid in South Africa and I was posting articles criticizing the Whites? That I'm too harsh on the Whites and should blame the Blacks instead?Xamonas Chegwé wrote:I was writing a long reply to this. But you really aren't worth bothering with. Honestly, I have far more compassion for suicide bombers than I have for those that cheer them on from the shadows.Gawd wrote:I want to see how much you have to criticize about the Palestinians.Xamonas Chegwé wrote: Why would I bother?
Unlike you, I am not bigoted, racist and irrationally biased toward one group of humans over another.
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
No, they're not collateral damage if they were the ones that were deliberately targeted. And a suicide bomber sitting on a bus knows full well that he's surrounded by a bunch of civilians, including kids.Gawd wrote:The children are collateral damage. That's a term VERY familiar to the US and Israeli military.
A mortar attack on an IDF checkpoint that inadvertently goes astray and kills a nearby kid - that is collateral damage. There is a difference of intent. And intent is incredibly important.
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Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
A very apt analogy. Black and white: the only way you see things. Somebody is RIGHT and the other guy is WRONG. No in-betweens. No shades of grey. No quarter given. Listen to yourself. You're a fucking cliché.Gawd wrote:What would you have wrote if this was the time of Apartheid in South Africa and I was posting articles criticizing the Whites? That I'm too harsh on the Whites and should blame the Blacks instead?Xamonas Chegwé wrote:I was writing a long reply to this. But you really aren't worth bothering with. Honestly, I have far more compassion for suicide bombers than I have for those that cheer them on from the shadows.Gawd wrote:I want to see how much you have to criticize about the Palestinians.Xamonas Chegwé wrote: Why would I bother?
Unlike you, I am not bigoted, racist and irrationally biased toward one group of humans over another.
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
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Sandy Denny
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Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing

Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
The intent is to tell the Israelis to get the fuck out.Ian wrote:No, they're not collateral damage if they were the ones that were deliberately targeted. And a suicide bomber sitting on a bus knows full well that he's surrounded by a bunch of civilians, including kids.Gawd wrote:The children are collateral damage. That's a term VERY familiar to the US and Israeli military.
A mortar attack on an IDF checkpoint that inadvertently goes astray and kills a nearby kid - that is collateral damage. There is a difference of intent. And intent is incredibly important.
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
What were the "in-betweens" in Apartheid South Africa? Regale me with tales.Xamonas Chegwé wrote:A very apt analogy. Black and white: the only way you see things. Somebody is RIGHT and the other guy is WRONG. No in-betweens. No shades of grey. No quarter given. Listen to yourself. You're a fucking cliché.Gawd wrote:What would you have wrote if this was the time of Apartheid in South Africa and I was posting articles criticizing the Whites? That I'm too harsh on the Whites and should blame the Blacks instead?Xamonas Chegwé wrote:I was writing a long reply to this. But you really aren't worth bothering with. Honestly, I have far more compassion for suicide bombers than I have for those that cheer them on from the shadows.Gawd wrote:I want to see how much you have to criticize about the Palestinians.Xamonas Chegwé wrote: Why would I bother?
Unlike you, I am not bigoted, racist and irrationally biased toward one group of humans over another.
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
By deliberately killing children.Gawd wrote:The intent is to tell the Israelis to get the fuck out.Ian wrote:No, they're not collateral damage if they were the ones that were deliberately targeted. And a suicide bomber sitting on a bus knows full well that he's surrounded by a bunch of civilians, including kids.Gawd wrote:The children are collateral damage. That's a term VERY familiar to the US and Israeli military.
A mortar attack on an IDF checkpoint that inadvertently goes astray and kills a nearby kid - that is collateral damage. There is a difference of intent. And intent is incredibly important.
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Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
Oh, they're the "coloureds"... and they're despised even more than the blacks.Gawd wrote:What were the "in-betweens" in Apartheid South Africa? Regale me with tales.
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Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
You're grasping at straws, Ian. The Palestinians don't target school buses, just regular public ones.Ian wrote:By deliberately killing children.Gawd wrote:The intent is to tell the Israelis to get the fuck out.Ian wrote:No, they're not collateral damage if they were the ones that were deliberately targeted. And a suicide bomber sitting on a bus knows full well that he's surrounded by a bunch of civilians, including kids.Gawd wrote:The children are collateral damage. That's a term VERY familiar to the US and Israeli military.
A mortar attack on an IDF checkpoint that inadvertently goes astray and kills a nearby kid - that is collateral damage. There is a difference of intent. And intent is incredibly important.
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
I'm not convinced at your assumption that they deliberately kill children.
In your given example they knowingly blow up a bus having foreknowledge that there are children on that bus. I find that hard to believe. I think it's more down to chance. By the same logic we might call a car drive a terrorist - they knowingly drive a potentially lethal weapon in areas where there are children.
You're continually exchanging the tool for the intent, and regularly missing the real intent as well. I wish to build a deck, to do that I have to hammer nails. The intent is to build a deck and the tool is the hammer.
These 'terrorists' wish to achieve something beyond the explosion of the bus, of terrorizing the public, even of killing themselves. To achieve this they have to do things, like blowing up buses or hammering nails. The intent is to achieve something significant and the tool is terrorism.
In your given example they knowingly blow up a bus having foreknowledge that there are children on that bus. I find that hard to believe. I think it's more down to chance. By the same logic we might call a car drive a terrorist - they knowingly drive a potentially lethal weapon in areas where there are children.
You're continually exchanging the tool for the intent, and regularly missing the real intent as well. I wish to build a deck, to do that I have to hammer nails. The intent is to build a deck and the tool is the hammer.
These 'terrorists' wish to achieve something beyond the explosion of the bus, of terrorizing the public, even of killing themselves. To achieve this they have to do things, like blowing up buses or hammering nails. The intent is to achieve something significant and the tool is terrorism.
Last edited by Jason on Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
And then we can talk about the hatred between the Afrikaans and the English speaking whites, and the disputes between different black tribes (Pretty much the Zulus against everyone else!) And then we could talk about the terrorist acts carried out by blacks on any old white they happened to find. And, of course, the reprisals by white-supremacists against any old black they happened to find hanging around.Pappa wrote:Oh, they're the "coloureds"... and they're despised even more than the blacks.Gawd wrote:What were the "in-betweens" in Apartheid South Africa? Regale me with tales.
Whenever any group of humans starts doing the old "groupthink" thing, some other group of humans (with a different skin-colour, race, religion, hairstyle or choice in interior decoration) is going to get bitched.
But of course, you are totally right in pointing out that, when one group is palestinian and the other is filthy, baby-eating JOOZ, it is far easier to tell which group is RIGHT.

A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing

Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Re: What is Your Political Opinion of "V for Vendetta"?
Are you shitting me? What's the difference? What a cold and cowardly response.Gawd wrote:You're grasping at straws, Ian. The Palestinians don't target school buses, just regular public ones.Ian wrote:By deliberately killing children.Gawd wrote:The intent is to tell the Israelis to get the fuck out.Ian wrote:No, they're not collateral damage if they were the ones that were deliberately targeted. And a suicide bomber sitting on a bus knows full well that he's surrounded by a bunch of civilians, including kids.Gawd wrote:The children are collateral damage. That's a term VERY familiar to the US and Israeli military.
A mortar attack on an IDF checkpoint that inadvertently goes astray and kills a nearby kid - that is collateral damage. There is a difference of intent. And intent is incredibly important.
You're the one reaching for straws. I'm not talking semantics, I'm talking about what really happens. A suicide bomber killing a couple dozen civilians is excused from being considered a terrorist and child killer because he doesn't expect there to be many kids around? Even if they can see them nearby before they press the button? They have killed a great many children, deliberately, whether you want to admit it or not.
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