US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It Out

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Gallstones » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:21 am

Just cooperate and they probably won't hurt you.
Don't want to be killing someone who is mistakenly intruding into your home---during the fucking day.

How can you tell who will go away with the goods and leave you unharmed and those who will do harm?
How many seconds/minutes does it take to discern the intentions of an intruder---how long do you give them before they tip their hand?

Rely on the police to protect you.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/petit-murder-t ... d=14556175
A Connecticut jury today heard a chilling 911 tape from a Bank of America employee who called police in 2007 when Jennifer Hawke-Petit, walked into the branch asking for $15,000 from her account so she could give it to the men who were holding her husband and children hostage.

During the seven hour ordeal, the family was battered, sexually assaulted, and the wife and two daughters killed.

The ony survivor of the July 23, 2007 attack was Dr. William Petit, who sat in the first row today.

"To me, she was trying to get done what she was sent into the bank to get done, so she could return to her family," Lyons said.

The bank manager said she watched as Hawke-Petit drove away with a man wearing a hoodie.

Shortly after leaving the bank, Jennifer Hawke-Petit and her two daughters Hayley, 17, and Michaela Petit, 11, would be dead. Hawke-Petit was raped and strangled and the girls died from smoke inhalation as they were tied to their beds when their house was set ablaze.

During his opening statements today, Bansley warned the jury that testimony they will hear would "break your hearts" and "shake your confidence in humanity," but he argued that as horrible as the events of that night were, Komisarjevsk's only broke into the home to commit a robbery. Hayes, he said, was responsible for the murders.


http://www.start.earthlink.net/article/ ... e3a8d22e66
Authorities say Komisarjevsky and Hayes, two paroled burglars, broke into a Cheshire home in July 2007, beat William Petit and tied up his wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit, and the couple's daughters, 11-year-old Michaela and 17-year-old Hayley. Hayes forced Hawke-Petit to withdraw money from a bank before he raped and strangled her in the family's home.

The girls, who had pillowcases placed over their heads, died of smoke inhalation after the house was doused with gasoline and set on fire.

Petit was also tied up but managed to escape to a neighbor's house to get help.


"To me, she was trying to get done what she was sent into the bank to get done, so she could return to her family," she said.

She said that the intruders had apparently already gone through Hawke-Petit's wallet and when she opened it to look for identification, the only things inside were some pictures of her daughters.

Bansley admitted that it was Komisarjevsky who spotted Hawke-Petit and Michaela at a supermarket, followed them home and later returned to the house with Hayes to break in to get money. He admitted Komisarjevsky beat Petit with a baseball bat and tied up the family and that Komisarjevsky masturbated in Michaela's presence.



Bansley said Hayes was worried about the DNA he left at the scene and told Komisarjevsky they would have to burn the house down and kill the family. He said Komisarjevsky was "stunned" and quoted from his confession to police that he told Hayes, "I'm not killing anyone. No one is dying by my hand today."

Bansley portrayed Komisarjevsky as panicked and indecisive, claiming he suffers from "cognitive difficulties" that makes him unable to make quick decisions in stressful situations.

During Hayes' trial, the defense blamed Komisarjevsky for escalating the violence and portrayed Komisarjevsky as the mastermind of the crime. They said Komisarjevsky had a long history of residential break-ins, attacked Petit with a bat, molested Michaela and pressured Hayes to sexually assault Hawke-Petit.

The poor man just suffers from cognitive difficulties, he isn't really bad.
Last edited by Gallstones on Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Gallstones » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:29 am

Joseph Edward Duncan III

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._Duncan_III
In May 2005, Kootenai County, Idaho authorities discovered the bodies of Brenda Groene, her boyfriend, and her 13-year-old son in the family home near Coeur d'Alene.[4] Authorities also noted that Groene's two other children were missing: Shasta, 8,[5] and Dylan, 9.[6] After an intense search for the two children, Shasta was found alive with Duncan at a restaurant in Coeur d'Alene nearly seven weeks later, and Duncan was arrested in conjunction with her kidnapping. Dylan's remains were found days later in a remote area near St. Regis, Montana.


During his incarceration, authorities connected Duncan with the long unsolved murders of Anthony Martinez in California and two girls in Seattle, all of which occurred during Duncan's parole from 1994–1997
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Ian » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:35 am

I grew up in Connecticut, not too far from Cheshire. The Petit case (which happened four days before my twins were born) turned me into a gun owner.

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:44 am

JimC wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a love of weapons is a marker of psychopathy.
Now I do think that is a completely OTT remark. One can prefer a society with a low level of hand-gun ownership, while still enjoying rifle shooting and hunting, for example.
Nah. I'm serious. Gun-love doesn't equal psychopathy but definitely scores you psycho points,moves you along the scale. I'd bet a larger proportion of psychopaths are interested in weaponry, compared to the general population.
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Robert_S » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:29 am

Clinton Huxley wrote:
JimC wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a love of weapons is a marker of psychopathy.
Now I do think that is a completely OTT remark. One can prefer a society with a low level of hand-gun ownership, while still enjoying rifle shooting and hunting, for example.
Nah. I'm serious. Gun-love doesn't equal psychopathy but definitely scores you psycho points,moves you along the scale. I'd bet a larger proportion of psychopaths are interested in weaponry, compared to the general population.
The real psychopaths learned long ago that it is better to rob with a fountain pen, or even better: a dodgy "financial product".
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:37 am

Aye, plenty of corporate psychopaths out there...
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I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by mistermack » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:45 pm

Coito, It doesn't happen that way though does it.
I read recently of some students going to a party, asked for directions, from a guy OUTSIDE his castle, on the drive. He shot one dead.
That's what happens in practice when you combine such stupid gun laws with stupid gun owners.

Edit :
And if I was a doctor, and received a call by someone having a heart attack, I would enter, if I didn't get an answer when I knocked and shouted.
I think any doctor would, and it's an even worse society than I thought, it they wouldn't.
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Robert_S » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:09 pm

mistermack wrote:Coito, It doesn't happen that way though does it.
I read recently of some students going to a party, asked for directions, from a guy OUTSIDE his castle, on the drive. He shot one dead.
Link?
That's what happens in practice when you combine such stupid gun laws with stupid gun owners.

Edit :
And if I was a doctor, and received a call by someone having a heart attack, I would enter, if I didn't get an answer when I knocked and shouted.
I think any doctor would, and it's an even worse society than I thought, it they wouldn't.
Doctors still make emergency house calls? I thought they'd send a loud ambulance with the flashing lights and people with uniforms on. Maybe you guys just do things too different over there.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by mistermack » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:28 pm

Robert_S wrote:
mistermack wrote:Coito, It doesn't happen that way though does it.
I read recently of some students going to a party, asked for directions, from a guy OUTSIDE his castle, on the drive. He shot one dead.
Link?
That's what happens in practice when you combine such stupid gun laws with stupid gun owners.

Edit :
And if I was a doctor, and received a call by someone having a heart attack, I would enter, if I didn't get an answer when I knocked and shouted.
I think any doctor would, and it's an even worse society than I thought, it they wouldn't.
Doctors still make emergency house calls? I thought they'd send a loud ambulance with the flashing lights and people with uniforms on. Maybe you guys just do things too different over there.
The link is Here
Looking again, it's something I read recently, but it happened in 1992. He's still dead though, apparently.

And I think you've missed the point about the doctor calling. I was just pointing out that in real life, people DO have to enter properties, in unforseen circumstances. It's not something you think much of, here in the UK. I would hate to think that I was taking my life in my hands, trying to help someone.
What a shitty way of life.

Edit : The japanese student case is not unique by any means :
Wikipedia wrote: Suspicions of implicit racism in the acquittal of Peairs further gained traction when, shortly afterwards, a homeowner named Todd Vriesenga, inside his house in Grand Haven, MI, similarly shot and killed a 17 year old named Adam Provencal through the front door. Vriesenga received a 16 to 24 month term for "reckless use of a firearm resulting in death", causing both Japanese and Asian-American advocacy groups to speculate on whether the difference between Vriesenga's conviction and Peairs' acquittal was related to the race of the victims. Other groups publicly stated that Vriesenga should have been convicted of the more severe charge of felony manslaughter.[1]
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Robert_S » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:45 pm

Actually, most of us don't own guns. I don't, but I do feel safer knowing that potential robbers people don't know that for sure.

I'm pretty laid back about the issue and I do not fear for my life every time I see a gun. It's just a machine that makes a piece of lead go really really fast.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by mistermack » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:24 pm

Robert_S wrote:Actually, most of us don't own guns. I don't, but I do feel safer knowing that potential robbers people don't know that for sure.
Don't you think that it increases the chances that the robbers will have guns?
I would feel less safe, not safer.
I've had a break in, by three black men aged about 20. I was asleep during the day, and was woken by the noise of the back door breaking.
I met them on the stairs and shouted at them as loud as I could that the police were on their way, and they ran out the way they had come in.
I wasn't going to try to fight, against three of them, but I'm VERY glad that guns are rare in this country.
I wouldn't have had the time in that instance to unlock a gun safe, load a gun and confront them.
But they might have had one, and expected me to shoot, and shot first.

A hole in the back door is sooooooooooo much easier to repair than a hole in the chest.
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:30 pm

mistermack wrote:
Robert_S wrote:Actually, most of us don't own guns. I don't, but I do feel safer knowing that potential robbers people don't know that for sure.
Don't you think that it increases the chances that the robbers will have guns?
No. Most BURGLARS don't want to get shot, they want to steal stuff. But there is a classification called "home invasion" where armed thugs break in using great violence in order to intimidate the occupants that they know are home. Usually this is related to drugs, but it's an increasingly common "gang burglary/robbery" crime. These intruders are bent not just on stealing, but also on rape, assault and murder and can be extremely violent. If you're the unfortunate victim of this sort of criminal, unless you have a firearm and can defend yourself, you are very likely to end up dead.

In some cases, the thugs dress up in black and shout "Police, search warrant!" as they break in to confuse the occupants into NOT shooting back, giving the thugs the advantage.

This is why in my home, since I know I've not violated the law, ANYONE breaking a forcible entry into my home will be shot immediately, even if they claim to be the police, because my assumption is that they are not the police and intend to kill me.
I would feel less safe, not safer.
Then by all means don't have a gun and roll over and let the intruders butt-fuck you and your wife and kids all night long. You get to choose what to do, and so do we. Where we have a problem is when YOU use your paranoid fearfulness to justify infringing on MY right to use a firearm to defend myself by defending and approving of laws that disarm law abiding citizens on the excuse that you are afraid of them.
I've had a break in, by three black men aged about 20. I was asleep during the day, and was woken by the noise of the back door breaking.
I met them on the stairs and shouted at them as loud as I could that the police were on their way, and they ran out the way they had come in.
I wasn't going to try to fight, against three of them, but I'm VERY glad that guns are rare in this country.
No, you're very lucky that they weren't interested in beating the crap out of you and robbing you anyway. I'm not interested in depending on the altruism and social conscience of criminal thugs. I'd rather have filled them with buckshot as they tried to mount the stairs, thereby preserving not only my own safety, but the safety of everyone else those three thugs will burgle and rob in their criminal careers.
I wouldn't have had the time in that instance to unlock a gun safe, load a gun and confront them.
That's why a self-defense weapon in your home must be loaded and quickly available at all times. There are a plethora of products out there to keep your nightstand handgun or shotgun safe and secure from family members that can be opened in less than three seconds, in the dark (if you practice, like I do) giving you rapid access to the weapon if someone breaks in to your house.
But they might have had one, and expected me to shoot, and shot first.
That's tactics. If you'd had a pump-action or semi-automatic shotgun (or a handgun) and proper training, you would have taken a proper defensive position at the top of the stairs low behind some cover, with little of your body visible and you'd have had a significant advantage as you shot down on them as they tried to mount the stairs single file. They would have had a very small, hard to hit target, and if you were at all well trained, you'd have likely prevailed. But only if you knew what to do and were properly armed.
A hole in the back door is sooooooooooo much easier to repair than a hole in the chest.
[/quote]

And holes in their chests are so much more effective at thwarting crime than holes in yours. Given the fact that YOU DID NOT KNOW whether or not the three thugs had guns, or knives, even in the UK. You made a stupid decision to openly confront them in spite of the fact that criminals in the UK DO possess guns and use them some 14,000 time or more a year (as I recall) to shoot people. You could easily have been one of those victims, or one of the huge number of knife-attack victims in the UK.

But you suffer from a confirmation bias. You falsely believe that you're "safe" and that you can just stand there and shout at an intruder while unarmed and expect to get away with it. Well, you were lucky, very lucky in this instance. Other people are not so lucky and for you to try to use your fortunate example as a guide for public policy is just plain ignorant and silly.

People do get hurt and killed, even in the UK, by burglars. And none of them deserve to have their unalienable, natural human right to be armed in self defense infringed and denied to them by their government. It's THEIR CHOICE whether to be armed, and ONLY their choice. Any government that forbids any person from being armed for self defense is illegitimate, tyrannical and despotic and must be overthrown and put down.
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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Like I said, marker of psychopathy.
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I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Seth » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:35 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:Like I said, marker of psychopathy.
Actually, it's a marker of sanity. Only the insane willingly give up their right to defend themselves against criminals.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

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Re: US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It

Post by Clinton Huxley » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:54 pm

Seth wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:Like I said, marker of psychopathy.
Actually, it's a marker of sanity. Only the insane willingly give up their right to defend themselves against criminals.
There's a little bit of spittle on your chin there, old chap.
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I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

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