Do Governments Represent Their People?

[Coito ergo sum]

You as the people voted Washington into power. You reap the benefits and you must also bear the responsibility.

What if we voted against the ones that actually went?

You as a people still voted Washington into power. By your constitution and laws, they are your President and leaders even if you don't like them. You can't just disobey your leaders simply because they won the election over your preferred choices. Democracy doesn't work that way.

...I'll accept that responsibility, if religious folk will accept the guilt for the religious leaders that their support allows to wield power.... i.e., all Americans are guilty for Washington, DC, if all Muslims are guilty for bin Laden and the rest of the maniacs. Deal?

Muslim is not a country.

So what? It's the same principle. You blokes consider the whack-job Imams your leaders more than your political leaders. Therefore, they represent you.

But, your folks are represented by the Syrian government, Iranian government, etc., too, right? Look at the election results - 97% of the electorate votes out of sincere love.....

[Coito ergo sum]

You keep avoiding the question. Is Obama your President?

Yes.

Does Obama represent the people of the US?

Only to the extent of the power delegated to him by the US Constitution. He is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, he is the Chief Executive of the the US, charged with seeing the constitutional laws of the United States are justly enforced, and he is the chief foreign policy mouthpiece of the U.S. -- however, he does not represent the US as a general agent - any negotiations he has with foreign leaders have to be ratified by the Congress - he can't act outside of his delegated power, etc. If he acts ultra vires, he is not representing the people of the US.

I'll give you brownie points for being straight. Now, since Obama is your representative and you finance his activities, I hold you and your associates as personally responsible for his actions (vicarious liability & providers liability).

Moreover, I am PROUD of my country's and my Presidents' actions overseas. I was four-square in favor of blowing the shit out of the Taliban and Al Qaeta and hunting them down wherever they could be found, and I was in favor of the Iraq War (more or less for the reasons repeatedly espoused by Christopher Hitchens). The current denizen of the White House, while certainly not my preferred candidate, has done a good job sticking with the program in Iraq and is winding down our direct involvement, and he made a decision to conduct a surge in Afghanistan which, while off to a rocky start, I won't fault him for. He got bin Laden, and a SEAL put a bullet in the fucker's head. Good.

Now - there - hold me personally responsible all you want. See here's the thing. Who gives a flying fuck who or what you and your ilk hold responsible? The folks you support are a stain on the planet - disgusting racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic, ethnocentric, theocratic bullies. I hold you personally responsible for the actions of the monsters you support and for whom you intentionally carry water. You promote theirterrorism and support it, and bin Laden represented you - Ahmadinejad represents you, the Imams, Mullahs and Ayatollahs represent you. I blame you for the fatwas on Rushdie and the Danish Cartoonists. You adopted those folks' cause, therefore I blame you.

I trust I've been clear?

[Coito ergo sum]

Muslim is not a country.

...yet.

Wouldn't be unprecedented, Jew is already a country.

OFFICIALLY Muslim countries:

Afghanistan
Algeria
Bangladesh
Brunei
Comoros
Egypt
Aceh Province of Indonesia
Jordan
Libya
Maldives
Malaysia
Mauritania
Morocco
Pakistan
Palestinian Territories
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
Tunisia
United Arab Emirates
Iran
Iraq
Oman
Kuwait
Yemen
Bahrain
Part of Somalia


Jewish countries:

Israel (which has 20% Muslim population): 22,000 square kilometers.

Conclusion: Jews are oppressing the Muslims and must be driven into the sea.

Makes sense.

[Coito ergo sum]

You keep avoiding the question. Is Obama your President?

Yes.

Does Obama represent the people of the US?

Only to the extent of the power delegated to him by the US Constitution. He is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, he is the Chief Executive of the the US, charged with seeing the constitutional laws of the United States are justly enforced, and he is the chief foreign policy mouthpiece of the U.S. -- however, he does not represent the US as a general agent - any negotiations he has with foreign leaders have to be ratified by the Congress - he can't act outside of his delegated power, etc. If he acts ultra vires, he is not representing the people of the US.

I'll give you brownie points for being straight. Now, since Obama is your representative and you finance his activities, I hold you and your associates as personally responsible for his actions (vicarious liability & providers liability).

Okay, so what's your suggestion if you don't happen to like your leaders? Move someplace else (and move again and again, when those other governments change leaders every few years)? Refuse to pay taxes? Go live in a shack in the woods?

Why not all 3? And there is always the American time honored tradition of murder/assassination used to "remove" political leaders in other countries.

So, since you don't agree with your government, why don't you take your own advice?

[Coito ergo sum]

Uh-huh. So which one of those are you doing? Surely you can't be happy that your government is friendly towards Israel (not to mention the Fourth Reich south of the border).

Unlike you, I can live with those with different views and not bomb them.

Maybe you can, but those folks you support have an issue with that.

[Coito ergo sum]

Uh-huh.
The next time you try whining about hypocrisy in others, bear this in mind:

My balls. Your tongue. You know what to do.

I get a bigger mouthful with raisins.

You have your standards, right? Only really big balls will do for you?

[Coito ergo sum]

See, Ian, this is the problem with you, you think you always have the right point of view.

I do too. It's much easier than trying to go through life with the opposite assumption.

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm tired of the dumb comments by some here saying that governments don't represent them. They are wrong. Your government officially represents you. What your government does reflects on who you are.

No, gummints don't represent the people, I'm pretty sure that the number of Americans who feel properly represented by the Obama administration, or by their reps and senators is a tiny minority.

I sure as heck am not being represented in any way, shape, or form, by my deputee in parliament, and even less by the szarkoszyt and his cronies.

You are still benefiting from public works, roads, water service, sewers, electric service, police, etc..... Maybe you should give that all up and live in the shack in the middle of nowhere if you think your government doesn't represent you.

a) the modern system of so called "representative democracy" is a sham and a fraud, as the elected officials do not represent the wishes and interests of those who nominally elected them, but solely those of the political party and machine that helped them get to that office.

Just by way of amplification - the non-modern systems - aristocracy, monarchy, dictatorship, empires, oligarchy, etc. - ruled by brute force, were not even nominally elected, did not represent the wishes and interests of the people and didn't even try to do so much, and were, in short, far greater shams and frauds. To refer to "the modern system" as a fraud implies that you think that some other system has existed that isn't at least the same or a worse fraud. Such is not the case.

[Svartalf]

Actually, they weren't frauds, since they did not claim to represent the wishes, will, and aspirations of the citizenry.
If the ruler was benevolent, he'd listen and do something about it, but his legitimity was never founded in the will of the people.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Gawd just wants to be able to blame the US public for the deeds of the government so he can then be happy when men, women and children are killed by some vendetta-lovin' 14th century rejects. I can't imagine the trauma required to make that line of thinking palatable.

[Seth]

Took me about 20 minutes to realise Gawd is not interested in reason, he's a zealot and you guys are wasting your time. Let him dig his own hole long enough and I'm sure his Government will represent his childish arse straight into jail.

Now that's an excellent point. Canada does have a number of laws against inciting ethnic hatred on the books. Now, as to ratting him out...

[Tyrannical]

Took me about 20 minutes to realise Gawd is not interested in reason, he's a zealot and you guys are wasting your time. Let him dig his own hole long enough and I'm sure his Government will represent his childish arse straight into jail.

Now that's an excellent point. Canada does have a number of laws against inciting ethnic hatred on the books. Now, as to ratting him out...

We might be able to get some Jew group to kick in a reward too

[Audley Strange]

Took me about 20 minutes to realise Gawd is not interested in reason, he's a zealot and you guys are wasting your time. Let him dig his own hole long enough and I'm sure his Government will represent his childish arse straight into jail.

Now that's an excellent point. Canada does have a number of laws against inciting ethnic hatred on the books. Now, as to ratting him out...

Your buddy Julian A?

[Audley Strange]

Took me about 20 minutes to realise Gawd is not interested in reason, he's a zealot and you guys are wasting your time. Let him dig his own hole long enough and I'm sure his Government will represent his childish arse straight into jail.

Now that's an excellent point. Canada does have a number of laws against inciting ethnic hatred on the books. Now, as to ratting him out...

We might be able to get some Jew group to kick in a reward too

What, like Kiss?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Took me about 20 minutes to realise Gawd is not interested in reason, he's a zealot and you guys are wasting your time. Let him dig his own hole long enough and I'm sure his Government will represent his childish arse straight into jail.

Now that's an excellent point. Canada does have a number of laws against inciting ethnic hatred on the books. Now, as to ratting him out...

Reward money. Got the Mounties' phone number?