Do Governments Represent Their People?

[Gawd]

Um, okay. I forgot. What country are you from that is so perfect?

Gawd infests Canada.

Better than the US, I don't have to help pay back $14 trillion in debt.

You should, given the fact that Canada has been protected by the United States for a very long time, and has enjoyed peace and stability precisely because they are our neighbor and it's in our best interests to include them in our defenses, like the nuclear deterrent defenses called the DEW line and all the missiles aimed at the USSR and China that maintained the balance of power and prevented global thermonuclear war.

Yes, Canada owe the US one hell of a lot of money for all that protection, just like Europe and the UK owed (owe) us for pulling their fat from the fire in WWII.

But the whole point of this rhetorical thread is Gawd wants us to admit that we are personally responsible for the decisions of our representatives that he thinks are improper.

I'm perfectly willing to say "yes" to his question because his opinions on the propriety of US actions at home and abroad are of as much interest or concern to me as the last turd I flushed down the john, and his attempt to attack America by trying to get us to admit to some malfeasance bouncing around in the vacuum he calls an intellectual argument are laughable, which is what I'm doing right now.

I knew you would come begging for money.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah, remembered something that should put a wrench in your perception of me only "hating" Americans, Ian. Stephen Harper (the Canadian Prime Minister) is pro-Israel and he is still my Prime Minister. Suck that.

When have I ever said that you only hate Americans?? You hate all sorts of people.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel's government can suck my shwetty arsehole. But while my current President has publicly endorsed the possibility of a Palestinian state (something that represents my views fairly well), your government is arguably more pro-Israeli than mine. Therefore, since Harper and his government are a reflection of who you are, you're pro-Israel. Care to change your avatar back to what it was for a month last summer?

Ian, your President said that he will shut down any possibility of a Palestinian state in the UN. Care to go again?

Sure - the key phrase there is in the UN.

But don't change the subject. As you said, your government is a reflection of who you are. And your government is very friendly towards Israel. Therefore, so are you.
Or maybe you could just admit that this thread is a load of crap.

[Gawd]

Oh, yeah, remembered something that should put a wrench in your perception of me only "hating" Americans, Ian. Stephen Harper (the Canadian Prime Minister) is pro-Israel and he is still my Prime Minister. Suck that.

When have I ever said that you only hate Americans?? You hate all sorts of people.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel's government can suck my shwetty arsehole. But while my current President has publicly endorsed the possibility of a Palestinian state (something that represents my views fairly well), your government is arguably more pro-Israeli than mine. Therefore, since Harper and his government are a reflection of who you are, you're pro-Israel. Care to change your avatar back to what it was for a month last summer?

Ian, your President said that he will shut down any possibility of a Palestinian state in the UN. Care to go again?

Sure - the key phrase there is in the UN.

But don't change the subject. As you said, your government is a reflection of who you are. And your government is very friendly towards Israel. Therefore, so are you.
Or maybe you could just admit that this thread is a load of crap.

I said my government is my representative and I reap the rewards as well as bear the responsibility, which you can't get straight. And I didn't say my government is "very friendly towards Israel", I just said that Harper is pro-Israel. We don't do the same back-stabbing things you do for Israel. Try keeping up with Canadian politics, eh? And Ian, if you know what's good for you, don't provoke me into starting another anti-Israel shit-storm. I have a lot of Haaretz articles backed up that I didn't post.

[Seth]

Oh, yeah, remembered something that should put a wrench in your perception of me only "hating" Americans, Ian. Stephen Harper (the Canadian Prime Minister) is pro-Israel and he is still my Prime Minister. Suck that.

When have I ever said that you only hate Americans?? You hate all sorts of people.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel's government can suck my shwetty arsehole. But while my current President has publicly endorsed the possibility of a Palestinian state (something that represents my views fairly well), your government is arguably more pro-Israeli than mine. Therefore, since Harper and his government are a reflection of who you are, you're pro-Israel. Care to change your avatar back to what it was for a month last summer?

Ian, your President said that he will shut down any possibility of a Palestinian state in the UN. Care to go again?

Sure - the key phrase there is in the UN.

But don't change the subject. As you said, your government is a reflection of who you are. And your government is very friendly towards Israel. Therefore, so are you.
Or maybe you could just admit that this thread is a load of crap.

I said my government is my representative and I reap the rewards as well as bear the responsibility, which you can't get straight. And I didn't say my government is "very friendly towards Israel", I just said that Harper is pro-Israel. We don't do the same back-stabbing things you do for Israel. Try keeping up with Canadian politics, eh? And Ian, if you know what's good for you, don't provoke me into starting another anti-Israel shit-storm. I have a lot of Haaretz articles backed up that I didn't post.

Here, let me try: Go fuck yourself and your grasshopper-eating, camel-fucking terrorist buddies.

Fucking Canada...they'll let just anybody in...no standards at all. What a bunch of maroons.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah, remembered something that should put a wrench in your perception of me only "hating" Americans, Ian. Stephen Harper (the Canadian Prime Minister) is pro-Israel and he is still my Prime Minister. Suck that.

When have I ever said that you only hate Americans?? You hate all sorts of people.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel's government can suck my shwetty arsehole. But while my current President has publicly endorsed the possibility of a Palestinian state (something that represents my views fairly well), your government is arguably more pro-Israeli than mine. Therefore, since Harper and his government are a reflection of who you are, you're pro-Israel. Care to change your avatar back to what it was for a month last summer?

Ian, your President said that he will shut down any possibility of a Palestinian state in the UN. Care to go again?

Sure - the key phrase there is in the UN.

But don't change the subject. As you said, your government is a reflection of who you are. And your government is very friendly towards Israel. Therefore, so are you.
Or maybe you could just admit that this thread is a load of crap.

I said my government is my representative and I reap the rewards as well as bear the responsibility, which you can't get straight. And I didn't say my government is "very friendly towards Israel", I just said that Harper is pro-Israel. We don't do the same back-stabbing things you do for Israel. Try keeping up with Canadian politics, eh? And Ian, if you know what's good for you, don't provoke me into starting another anti-Israel shit-storm. I have a lot of Haaretz articles backed up that I didn't post.

Oh please, could you? I'd love a bunch more of those articles. They're so very very enlightening.

Yes, you said that thing about reaping the rewards and bearing the responsibility. Sounds good, I get it... but you also started off by saying that your government is a reflection of who you are. To which everyone who's posted here has more or less called a load of crap.

[Gawd]

Here, let me try: Go fuck yourself and your grasshopper-eating, camel-fucking terrorist buddies.

Fucking Canada...they'll let just anybody in...no standards at all. What a bunch of maroons.

What is with you and your obsession with camel-fucking? Oh, wait, you have a farm with animals.......

[Gawd]

Oh please, could you? I'd love a bunch more of those articles. They're so very very enlightening.

Yes, you said that thing about reaping the rewards and bearing the responsibility. Sounds good, I get it... but you also started off by saying that your government is a reflection of who you are. To which everyone who's posted here has more or less called a load of crap.

Don't mind if I do......

It is true that your government is a reflection of who you are. You are an "American", aren't you? All the ministers get voted in, they reflect the general will.

[Ian]

Oh please, could you? I'd love a bunch more of those articles. They're so very very enlightening.

Yes, you said that thing about reaping the rewards and bearing the responsibility. Sounds good, I get it... but you also started off by saying that your government is a reflection of who you are. To which everyone who's posted here has more or less called a load of crap.

Don't mind if I do......

It is true that your government is a reflection of who you are. You are an "American", aren't you? All the ministers get voted in, they reflect the general will.

I don't have any ministers. I'm an American.

I voted for my President, Governor, Congressman and Senators. Some of those elections came out the way I wanted, some have not at all. The officials who work for them, including major Secretaries and Ambassadors, are appointments, and many (but not all) of them are confirmed by the Senate. At best, they're an approximation of the general will. And at any given time, roughly half the country holds them ill will.

You're trying to explain what a government is. We all know what one is. But the notion that any given citizen within a country can be presumed to be adequately reflected by whichever leaders happen to be in office at a given time is totally unrealistic. Therefore, the OP in this thread is totally unrealistic.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I don't have any ministers. I'm an American.

Gawd doesn't need to know anything about a subject to hate it.

[Coito ergo sum]

You as the people voted Washington into power. You reap the benefits and you must also bear the responsibility.

What if we voted against the ones that actually went?

You as a people still voted Washington into power. By your constitution and laws, they are your President and leaders even if you don't like them. You can't just disobey your leaders simply because they won the election over your preferred choices. Democracy doesn't work that way.

...I'll accept that responsibility, if religious folk will accept the guilt for the religious leaders that their support allows to wield power.... i.e., all Americans are guilty for Washington, DC, if all Muslims are guilty for bin Laden and the rest of the maniacs. Deal?

[Coito ergo sum]

Is Obama your President?

Yes.

[Coito ergo sum]

You keep avoiding the question. Is Obama your President?

Yes.

Does Obama represent the people of the US?

Only to the extent of the power delegated to him by the US Constitution. He is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, he is the Chief Executive of the the US, charged with seeing the constitutional laws of the United States are justly enforced, and he is the chief foreign policy mouthpiece of the U.S. -- however, he does not represent the US as a general agent - any negotiations he has with foreign leaders have to be ratified by the Congress - he can't act outside of his delegated power, etc. If he acts ultra vires, he is not representing the people of the US.

[Ian]

I don't have any ministers. I'm an American.

Gawd doesn't need to know anything about a subject to hate it.

He's just looking for excuses to hate entire countries' worth of people, that's all.

I've always had a hard time classifying what sort of underlying politics he subscribes to, other than that he's fanatical beyond all facts and reason against anything Israeli or American. But this thread sheds some light on his mindset. Most people would disagree with the idea they their lives can be defined above all by whomever their political leaders are at any given time, preferring to see divisions among people based more on class or ideology (or even race or gender or religion) than by nationality. But not Gawd: his point here is that people are collectivised by nationality above all those other factors, and thus anybody in any given nation can be stereotyped by what their governments look like at any given time. In other words, he's a statist.

I'd say he's about ninety-seven years behind the times.

[Coito ergo sum]

As for Obama, he represents some of the people of the U.S., but not all of us.

Are you sure that's what your constitution and laws say?

I'm sure that the Constitution doesn't say that the President "represents" the people of the U.S. He "serves" them, and has certain powers by virtue of his office. If he acts wrongly, like any agent, he moves outside of any representative capacity. But, the real notion in the US is that the President "serves" the people and is to act Constitutionally and always in the best interests of the nation as a whole. The Congressmen and women "represent" their constituencies, but not the nation as a whole. A Congressman from the 11th district represents the 11th district and not the US as a whole.

I'm comfortable stating that the President "represents" the United States, and as a citizen thereof, me included. And, I didn't vote for him. I see nothing in the least wrong with that. It doesn't make me to blame if/when he does something stupid.

[Coito ergo sum]

I haven't even bombed anything YET and you've already labelled me as a terrorist. Standard American M.O. Answer the question or are you afraid you will offend Ian?