New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

Post Reply
User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by mistermack » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:11 pm

Psychoserenity » wrote:
mistermack wrote:
Psychoserenity » wrote:
mistermack » wrote:The weather analogue is perfectly valid.
You can't claim that nothing is too difficult to model, without explaining why we can't model weather accurately.
Weather is chaotic, climate not so much.

I haven't a clue what temperature it will be here in three weeks from today - nobody does. It could easily be plus or minus 5 degrees from what it is now. But I can be pretty damn certain that the winter here will average 10 - 15 degrees colder than the summer.
In a way that's true. Climate does repeat cycles. But the next cycle is an ice age.
And we have no historical cycles to study the effect of artificially raised CO2.
Just guesswork.
Sorry mistermack, it's my fault really - I once again forgot that talking to you about anything remotely scientific is a complete waste of time. I must remind myself that your first thread here was your own bizarre interpretation of relativity and you are not to be taken seriously. ;)
And I might point out to you that nobody found the fault with it.
I had to do it myself.
It says as much about others as it does about me.
I put it out as a challenge to people who should have known, and yet had to solve it myself.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by Schneibster » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:16 pm

I'm gonna go with the big red letters:
Any inertial frame of reference for which any particle in the Universe travels at more than c is false and invalid. Because it's impossible for the velocity of any particle to reach c.
No. There is matter beyond the horizon of the universe; we know there is because of the state of the matter on the near side of the edge, which is affected by the matter we can't see because it's over the horizon. Not to mention the fact that the horizon is at different distances for different observers; so what's over the edge for one is not necessarily over the edge for another, but perfectly visible, with no sign of "invalidity" or "falsity," whatever you think you mean by those terms.

Just because you can't see it right now doesn't mean it's "false" or "invalid."

You are a crank.Removed pending discussion.
Last edited by Schneibster on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by mistermack » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:20 pm

Schneibster » wrote: You are a crank.
You're weird !!
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by Robert_S » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:24 pm

Seriously, don't can't call a person a crank here, or else the mods will have to tell you to stop.

You can call their arguments and debate style cranky though.
mistermack wrote:
Schneibster » wrote: You are a crank.
You're weird !!
You're not?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
Tigger
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 piccolos
Posts: 15714
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:26 pm
About me: It's not "about" me, it's exactly me.
Location: location location.

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by Tigger » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:26 pm

Robert_S » wrote:Seriously, don't can't call a person a crank here, or else the mods will have to tell you to stop.

You can call their arguments and debate style cranky though.
mistermack wrote:
Schneibster » wrote: You are a crank.
You're weird !!
You're not?
I was just coming in actually. Nicely timed. :biggrin:
Image
Seth wrote:Fuck that, I like opening Pandora's box and shoving my tool inside it

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by mistermack » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:27 pm

Robert_S » wrote:Seriously, don't can't call a person a crank here, or else the mods will have to tell you to stop.

You can call their arguments and debate style cranky though.
mistermack wrote:
Schneibster » wrote: You are a crank.
You're weird !!
You're not?
Does it matter?
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by Schneibster » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:27 pm

Oh, even if I can prove it? I would have said that's the difference between an insult and a fact. I'm kinda dicey about being told not to state facts. Don't seem right. Is there an appropriate place to discuss it? I wouldn't wanna be a dick.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by mistermack » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:30 pm

Schneibster » wrote:Oh, even if I can prove it? I would have said that's the difference between an insult and a fact. I'm kinda dicey about being told not to state facts. Don't seem right. Is there an appropriate place to discuss it? I wouldn't wanna be a dick.
Oh dear!
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 74174
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by JimC » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:09 pm

Schneibster » wrote:Oh, even if I can prove it? I would have said that's the difference between an insult and a fact. I'm kinda dicey about being told not to state facts. Don't seem right. Is there an appropriate place to discuss it? I wouldn't wanna be a dick.
One can say "Your statement is nothing more than crank science", since that avoids the ad hominem while still fully expressing your opinion of the post.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by Schneibster » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:22 pm

Good suggestion; thanks. Discussion in progress. Results soon.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by FBM » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:08 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14768574

Crank science revealed (Seems xtians don't want global warming to be true):
spencer.jpg
spencer.jpg (25.67 KiB) Viewed 506 times
Dr Spencer is a committed Christian as well as a professional scientist
Journal editor resigns over 'problematic' climate paper
The editor of a science journal has resigned after admitting that a recent paper casting doubt on man-made climate change should not have been published.

The paper, by US scientists Roy Spencer and William Braswell, claimed that computer models of climate inflated projections of temperature increase.

It was seized on by "sceptic" bloggers, but attacked by mainstream scientists.

Wolfgang Wagner, editor of Remote Sensing journal, says he agrees with their criticisms and is stepping down.

“I stand behind the science contained in the paper”
Dr Roy Spencer

University of Alabama

"Peer-reviewed journals are a pillar of modern science," he writes in a resignation note published in Remote Sensing.

"Their aim is to achieve highest scientific standards by carrying out a rigorous peer review that is, as a minimum requirement, supposed to be able to identify fundamental methodological errors or false claims.

"Unfortunately, as many climate researchers and engaged observers of the climate change debate pointed out in various internet discussion fora, the paper by Spencer and Braswell... is most likely problematic in both aspects and should therefore not have been published."

Heated debate

The paper became a cause celebre in "sceptical" circles through its claim that mainstream climate models inflated temperature projections through misunderstanding the role of clouds in the climate system and the rate at which the Earth radiated heat into space.

This meant, it said, that projections of temperature rise made in Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports were too high.

The paper, published in July, was swiftly attacked by scientists in the mainstream of climate research.

They also commented on the fact that the paper was not published in a journal that routinely deals with climate change. Remote Sensing's core topic is methods for monitoring aspects of the Earth from space.

Publishing in "off-topic" journals is generally frowned on in scientific circles, partly because editors may lack the specialist knowledge and contacts needed to run a thorough peer review process.

In essence, Dr Wagner, a professor of remote sensing at Vienna University of Technology, is blaming himself for this failing.

But he also blames the researchers themselves for not referencing all the relevant research in their manuscript.

"The problem is that comparable studies published by other authors have already been refuted..., a fact which was ignored by Spencer and Braswell in their paper and, unfortunately, not picked up by the reviewers.

"In other words, the problem I see with the paper... is not that it declared a minority view (which was later unfortunately much exaggerated by the public media) but that it essentially ignored the scientific arguments of its opponents.

"This latter point was missed in the review process, explaining why I perceive this paper to be fundamentally flawed and therefore wrongly accepted by the journal."

'Honourable course'

Scientific papers that turn out to be flawed or fraudulent are usually retracted by the journals that publish them, with editorial resignations a rarity.

But Bob Ward, policy and communications director at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at the London School of Economics, said Dr Wagner had done the decent thing.

"It was a mistake, he's owned up to it and taken an honourable course, and I think he's to be commended for it," he told BBC News.

"I think it remains to be seen whether the authors follow a similar course."

Mr Ward described the tactic of publishing in off-topic journals as a "classic tactic" of scientists dismissive of man-made climate change.

"Those who recognise that their ideas are weak but seek to get them into the literature by finding weaknesses in the peer review system are taking a thoroughly disreputable approach," he said.

Roy Spencer, however, told BBC News: "I stand behind the science contained in the paper itself, as well as my comments published on my blog at drroyspencer.com.

"Our university press release necessarily put our scientific results in lay language, and what we believe they mean in the larger context of global warming research. This is commonly done in press statements made by the IPCC and its scientists, too, when reporting on research which advocates the view that climate change is almost entirely caused by humans.

"The very fact that the public has the perception that climate change is man-made, when in fact there is as yet no way to know with any level of scientific certainty how much is man-made versus natural, is evidence of that."

Dr Spencer is one of the team at the University of Alabama in Huntsville that keeps a record of the Earth's temperature as determined from satellite readings.

He is also on the board of directors of the George C Marshall Institute, a right-wing thinktank critical of mainstream climate science, and an advisor to the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, an evangelical Christian organisation that claims policies to curb climate change "would destroy jobs and impose trillions of dollars in costs" and "could be implemented only by enormous and dangerous expansion of government control over private life".
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by Schneibster » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:18 am

You can see the lie in his eyes; just like Bachmann.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by FBM » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:20 am

He's strung out on jeebus.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by Schneibster » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:49 am

Remember Ted Haggard? Meth, right?

Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmis

Post by FBM » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:21 am

Just goes to show that even scientists can juggle the data to make it say what they want it to say, especially if they're wearing jeebus-goggles. That's why peer review is such a crucial aspect of science. The majority might occasionally be wrong, but it's not wrong as often as individuals are. As for global warming, the majority of climatologists are convinced that it's real and manmade, as far as I know. (I couldn't be arsed to read the whole thread.)
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests