Hundreds of Irish Catholic priests 'to be implicated in chil

[Pappa]

Part of the problem with being more vocal and proactive is that you get tarred very quickly with the "militant" label (militant atheist = any atheist prepared to speak their mind in public ).

I imagine that's connected with our natural tendency to dichotomise and compartmentalise everything. We are able not to, but we usually do it without realising (and the media often helps us on our way).

[Pappa]

The daughter is by all accounts very intelligent and strong-willed, so hopefully she will stick to her guns.

Let's hope so!

Insha'Allah.

[AshtonBlack]

The daughter is by all accounts very intelligent and strong-willed, so hopefully she will stick to her guns.

Let's hope so!

Insha'Allah.

....

[klr]

The daughter is by all accounts very intelligent and strong-willed, so hopefully she will stick to her guns.

Let's hope so!

Insha'Allah.

That would probably go down like a lead balloon in deepest, darkest rural Ireland.

Mind you, when I was growing up, the very worst thing you could be was a Protestant (denomination irrelevant). Other religions really didn't figure in the Irish Catholic conciousness of the times.

[Chinaski]

"Yes, but are you a protestant atheist or a catholic atheist?"

[klr]

"Yes, but are you a protestant atheist or a catholic atheist?"

Seriously: When I was young, I remember being driven past a church and being told not to bless myself as we had all been taught to do when passing any church or religious shrine. Imagine trying to convey to a young child that there are some people who are fundamentally different to you - just because they went to a different church. Protestants were objects of morbid curiosity to us at times. It wasn't long before my time when Catholics were assured that Protestants were all going to hell, and that the Jews were fools for not accepting Jesus. Actually, I remember being told the second bit myself at school.

And if I had been born a few years earlier, my left hand would have been tied behind my back to prevent me writing with it, as happened with my mother. That didn't happen in just those religious institutions - it was widespread in the Irish education system. If none of these other abuses had happened, that would have surely been a massive scandal in itself. As it is, it's just a footnote.

[Hermit]

Part of the problem with being more vocal and proactive is that you get tarred very quickly with the "militant" label (militant atheist = any atheist prepared to speak their mind in public ). People can be infuriatingly perverse. Go too far (in their eyes) with criticism, and you run the risk of being counter-productive. "Why be so strident when there is no real problem?" would be a common response. Except of course there is a problem.

Do tell. My partner and I ceased participating in another forum a couple of months ago after a moderator, whom I respected for his thoroughly liberal points of view, fired a salvo part of which went like this:

I wouldn't care so much if it was in response to an obvious cause, but it seems to be egregious, almost gleeful, in nature. I'm not saying "don't discuss it" or "don't have a point of view", but seriously, from the particular individuals concerned, it's been like a broken record for the past 4-6 months and comes across as just a wall of sneering and negativity, even to people who otherwise don't care about the issue (such as those here to discuss politics or current affairs). The mods are presently discussing how to deal with this and there's a general consensus that warnings or even blocks may be appropriate in the future if it continues. This is a community and we should consider the needs of all our members, not just the need for expression of a vocal minority.

(My bolding)

This was in reply to some faithead's complaint about too much negativity concerning "the church". The issue? My opening post:

Pastor Fred Winters was conducting a church service in Maryville, Illinois, USA when a man walked up to him. A few words were exchanged, and then the man shot him dead. The motive for the killing is not known at this stage.

What gets me, is the resulting apologetics. It seems the all-loving and all-powerful God of christianity cannot possibly do wrong. That, to me, is the true tragedy.

"Our great God is not surprised by this, or anything," Nate Adams, executive director of the Illinois Baptist State Association, said in a statement. "That he allows evil and free will to have their way in tragedies like this is a mystery in many ways. But we know we can trust him no matter what, and draw close to him in any circumstances." The Sydney Morning Herald

So here we have an objection by "a person of faith" to a criticism of a commonly expressed religious idiocy that was upheld by someone who is not a theist, but who nevertheless regarded my thread as another instance of anti religious negativity that goes on like a broken record. No such objections were ever made by anyone in regard to at least half a dozen threads dedicated solely to slagging Paris Hilton (not the Hotel itself) in a section of a forum ostensibly about news, current affairs and politics.

It is this ridiculous restriction regarding criticism of matters religious that has Richard Dawkins baffled: "I am intrigued and mystified by the disproportionate privileging of religion in our otherwise secular societies." "What is so special about religion that we grant it such uniquely privileged respect?" That privilege of being beyond criticism in the eye of the populace is the very obstacle to abolishing child abuse by priests, nuns or monks.

[Hermit]

the very worst thing you could be was a Protestant

Ah! I bet you have heard the story of the priest who asked a class of children what they want to be when they grow up.

[klr]

Part of the problem with being more vocal and proactive is that you get tarred very quickly with the "militant" label (militant atheist = any atheist prepared to speak their mind in public ). People can be infuriatingly perverse. Go too far (in their eyes) with criticism, and you run the risk of being counter-productive. "Why be so strident when there is no real problem?" would be a common response. Except of course there is a problem.

Do tell.

No so much in my personal experience - yet. This is mainly because I've a very good idea what sort of reaction I would get from some quarters . It's all about finding the correct time and place, and the right context in which to apply the big sticks of logic, reason and evidence. It's crazy, because many of the people I know are (IMHO) mentally and emotionally close to turning that corner, but they just don't see it/don't want to see it. They don't want to move out of that comfort zone, even with something like this right in front of their face.

My partner and I ceased participating in another forum a couple of months ago after a moderator, whom I respected for his thoroughly liberal points of view, fired a salvo part of which went like this:

I wouldn't care so much if it was in response to an obvious cause, but it seems to be egregious, almost gleeful, in nature.

...

It is this ridiculous restriction regarding criticism of matters religious that has Richard Dawkins baffled: "I am intrigued and mystified by the disproportionate privileging of religion in our otherwise secular societies." "What is so special about religion that we grant it such uniquely privileged respect?" That privilege of being beyond criticism in the eye of the populace is the very obstacle to abolishing child abuse by priests, nuns or monks.

I thought for a few minutes about this, and then realised I do know of Irish people like the forum moderator you've mentioned. It seems to be a natural consequence of political correctness/cultural relativism gone too far: That grandiose claims about life, the universe and everything should be protected even by "liberals" from the most vigorous of scrutiny and robust comment. I'm solidly with RD on this one: Why is it that you can freely criticise almost anything else except religious beliefs, which by their very nature should deserve the most attention?

BTW, I've started to frequent an Irish politics board (http://www.politics.ie), and I'm happy to report that it's no holds barred there when it comes to criticising religion. Which is just as well, because there are religious apologists there who make my skin crawl.

[klr]

the very worst thing you could be was a Protestant

Ah! I bet you have heard the story of the priest who asked a class of children what they want to be when they grow up.

Well, I've probably heard a number of those, so I'm not sure which one you're referring to.