The Coming Collapse of the World Economy

[Coito ergo sum]

Don't worry, there will be no collapse - food stamps will take care of it: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... mulus.html Either that, or a fake alien invasion will fix everything: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 26995.html

[sandinista]

Oh, so you admit to being a troll. Duly noted.

Whatever floats your boat troll.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Noted for future reference.

[Atheist-Lite]

and I'll say for me, now, anyone who claims a absolute truth more than a month ahead is a liar.

Not so true. The sun will eventually explode. Capitalism will also collapse. Both are true and both will take more than a month.

Yes, I meant in terms of the situation we are embroliled in has a species right now....I'm sure the picture frame will be intact even if the picture is not there, nor the viewer.

[Coito ergo sum]

There we have it, folks. The coddled "revolutionary" hiding up in the taiga thinks the collapse of the world economy is a wet dream. Millions will probably starve, or worse, but "up the revolution". The utter dismissiveness would be appalling if it wasn't for the fact that, like everything Sandy V. posts, it's a sham.

It'll be hell. That much is certain. How much infrastructure is left intact both in terms of material & social will determine whether we get off light with a 50 year half-malthusian or the full blown one and a thousand years dark age. (worst case scenario is we make ourselves extinct - doesn't much matter with that, it's something no one will be writing history books about. )

And Sandy can't wait.

Yes, looking forward to it. A collapse of one system means the birth of another. If you could see a little bit past tomorrow and try to think long term (I know thats hard for you...thinking that is) perhaps you would understand....not that I expect you to.

I think what they are getting at is that to relish the thought of a collapse in the world economy is to relish the thought of a monumental tragedy. It's easy to think of it abstractly, as death of one system and rise of another, but only insofar as one is aloof or apart from its effects, which is the way it is sitting up in a protected, insular locale like Canada. When the result of a global collapse is that there will be widespread violent conflict, millions of deaths, perhaps world war, starvation, malnutrition, and that the worst hit by this will be the "least fortunate among us" then it does seem a bit glib to be looking forward to such things. Moreover, it is not at all clear that the collapse of the current "system" means the birth of another. It could very well mean just some chaos and then rebirth of the same or similar system, and there is certainly nothing to say that whatever "system" emerges from the ashes will be anything like anything that you would approve of.

Heck, we don't even know, as far as I've seen in all your posts, any coherent description of just what the "system" you want to see "born" will look like. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: maybe the system you are envisioning will be just fabulous, and will be worth every bit of tragedy and strife associated with a global economic collapse, and in that case, on balance, the rise of your new "system" will be a boon to mankind, more than offsetting all costs. Could you clue us in on what system you want to see born?

[Coito ergo sum]

and I'll say for me, now, anyone who claims a absolute truth more than a month ahead is a liar.

Not so true. The sun will eventually explode. Capitalism will also collapse. Both are true and both will take more than a month.

What do you define capitalism to be? Would you agree that it is: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly, but not necessarily exclusively, by private individuals/groups/associations? What would take its place?

[sandinista]

Noted for future reference.

ooooh so worried

I think what they are getting at is that to relish the thought of a collapse in the world economy is to relish the thought of a monumental tragedy.

Not sure who "they" are...but it's not a tragedy if something better appears in the wake. More of an opportunity.

When the result of a global collapse is that there will be widespread violent conflict, millions of deaths, perhaps world war, starvation, malnutrition

as opposed to the current situation? What?? All those things are happening as we write.

it does seem a bit glib to be looking forward to such things.

Not at all, you say "glib" I say hopeful.

Moreover, it is not at all clear that the collapse of the current "system" means the birth of another. It could very well mean just some chaos and then rebirth of the same or similar system, and there is certainly nothing to say that whatever "system" emerges from the ashes will be anything like anything that you would approve of.

True, like I said, I'm hopeful.

Could you clue us in on what system you want to see born?

One not based on permanent growth and simple profit motive.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So, nothing. Didn't think so.

[Atheist-Lite]

The difference between capitalism and communism is that in communism there's a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do whilst in capitalism you'll find a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do.

I say we can't predict but if enough survivors recall the causes of the collapse they will avoid extremes...left, right and middle.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The difference between capitalism and communism is that in communism there's a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do whilst in capitalism you'll find a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do.

I say we can't predict but if enough survivors recall the causes of the collapse they will avoid extremes...left, right and middle.

But in the Elysian Fields it's much better. We all love each other and share everything. And better still, we don't have to figure out how it will work. It just IS!

[Atheist-Lite]

The difference between capitalism and communism is that in communism there's a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do whilst in capitalism you'll find a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do.

I say we can't predict but if enough survivors recall the causes of the collapse they will avoid extremes...left, right and middle.

But in the Elysian Fields it's much better. We all love each other and share everything. And better still, we don't have to figure out how it will work. It just IS!

What happens after we quit this mortal coil is anyone's guess?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The difference between capitalism and communism is that in communism there's a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do whilst in capitalism you'll find a small minority with everything telling everyone else what to do.

I say we can't predict but if enough survivors recall the causes of the collapse they will avoid extremes...left, right and middle.

But in the Elysian Fields it's much better. We all love each other and share everything. And better still, we don't have to figure out how it will work. It just IS!

What happens after we quit this mortal coil is anyone's guess?

It's a reference to a place in fantasy, as opposed to the real world, of course. Coffee house revolutionaries like Sandy build their utopias on clouds and never notice the vaporous nature of their foundations. OR "talk's cheap". You pick 'em.

[sandinista]

Coffee house revolutionaries like Sandy build their utopias on clouds

again with the "utopia". One note johnny can only play one note...what were you saying about a broken record. pfft.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay then.

[Coito ergo sum]

Noted for future reference.

ooooh so worried

I think what they are getting at is that to relish the thought of a collapse in the world economy is to relish the thought of a monumental tragedy.

Not sure who "they" are...but it's not a tragedy if something better appears in the wake. More of an opportunity.

Gawdzilla and Crumple. And, it may still be a tragedy even if something better appears in its wake, and also one can't assume that something better will, in fact, appear in its wake. For all we know it will be worse, or the same. What better thing do you think will come of it?

After the biggest "collapse" after the fall of the western Roman Empire, we had 1000 years or more of non-capitalist bad times, more or less. After that, capitalism was born, clearly not something you would describe as "better." There's no telling that capitalism won't be born from the fires of another collapse, is there? Or, something worse?

When the result of a global collapse is that there will be widespread violent conflict, millions of deaths, perhaps world war, starvation, malnutrition

as opposed to the current situation? What?? All those things are happening as we write.

Not to the degree that a greater global collapse would cause. If all you're referring to is that something will arise out of the current situation, well, then that's not what I'm talking about (and I daresay not what zilla and crumple were talking about). The current situation is peanuts compared to what I was attempting to describe.

[

it does seem a bit glib to be looking forward to such things.

Not at all, you say "glib" I say hopeful.

Hopeful for what? What do you hope for? (other than "something better" - everyone hopes for something better - if that's the extent of your hope, then it's pointless to even discuss it).

[

Moreover, it is not at all clear that the collapse of the current "system" means the birth of another. It could very well mean just some chaos and then rebirth of the same or similar system, and there is certainly nothing to say that whatever "system" emerges from the ashes will be anything like anything that you would approve of.

True, like I said, I'm hopeful.

Hopeful that what would emerge, exactly? What do you hope for?

[

Could you clue us in on what system you want to see born?

One not based on permanent growth and simple profit motive.

Could you clue us in on what system you want to see born? (not in the negative - many many different things, almost infinite, can be "not based on permanetn growth and simple profit motive.") Of all the systems that aren't based on permanent growth and simple profit motive, what is the system or an example of the systems that you are hoping for?