So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:09 am

Seth wrote:
Robert_S wrote:Wasn't there something about someone sinking US ships?
Not really. The sinking of the Lusitania was used by the propagandists at Wilson's Committee for Public Information to whip up public sentiment, but the US did not enter the war until 22 months after the Lusitania was sunk. Far more pertinent was the Zimmerman telegraph, which was a proposition of an alliance between German and Mexico from the German government, which proposed to support Mexico attacking the US to distract us from the European war should we decide to enter, and it promised a "reconquista" of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona with German assistance.
So Wilson engineered a proposed invasion of the US by the Mexicans in collusion with the Germans? Really?
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Robert_S » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:31 am

Gawdzilla wrote:
Seth wrote:
Robert_S wrote:Wasn't there something about someone sinking US ships?
Not really. The sinking of the Lusitania was used by the propagandists at Wilson's Committee for Public Information to whip up public sentiment, but the US did not enter the war until 22 months after the Lusitania was sunk. Far more pertinent was the Zimmerman telegraph, which was a proposition of an alliance between German and Mexico from the German government, which proposed to support Mexico attacking the US to distract us from the European war should we decide to enter, and it promised a "reconquista" of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona with German assistance.
So Wilson engineered a proposed invasion of the US by the Mexicans in collusion with the Germans? Really?
Did Wilson show his birth certificate?
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:37 am

Robert_S wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Seth wrote:
Robert_S wrote:Wasn't there something about someone sinking US ships?
Not really. The sinking of the Lusitania was used by the propagandists at Wilson's Committee for Public Information to whip up public sentiment, but the US did not enter the war until 22 months after the Lusitania was sunk. Far more pertinent was the Zimmerman telegraph, which was a proposition of an alliance between German and Mexico from the German government, which proposed to support Mexico attacking the US to distract us from the European war should we decide to enter, and it promised a "reconquista" of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona with German assistance.
So Wilson engineered a proposed invasion of the US by the Mexicans in collusion with the Germans? Really?
Did Wilson show his birth certificate?
He's an honorary American, considering his birthplace.
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:38 am

Tyrannical wrote:So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President.
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He's changed a bit. :tea:

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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:40 am

Been thinking the same damn thing. :hehe:
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Seth » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:16 am

Gawdzilla wrote:
Seth wrote:
Robert_S wrote:Wasn't there something about someone sinking US ships?
Not really. The sinking of the Lusitania was used by the propagandists at Wilson's Committee for Public Information to whip up public sentiment, but the US did not enter the war until 22 months after the Lusitania was sunk. Far more pertinent was the Zimmerman telegraph, which was a proposition of an alliance between German and Mexico from the German government, which proposed to support Mexico attacking the US to distract us from the European war should we decide to enter, and it promised a "reconquista" of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona with German assistance.
So Wilson engineered a proposed invasion of the US by the Mexicans in collusion with the Germans? Really?
I doubt it, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Zimmerman missive, which was intercepted by the British and decrypted by them and given to the press, I expect in order to get the US into the conflict, was fabricated by the Brits, though there is no evidence to support that theory.

The revelation of the German attempt to persuade Mexico to invade us (which they never did) inflamed public emotions and lead pretty much directly to our entry into the war. But Wilson had been banging the propaganda drum and incarcerating dissenters for quite some time prior.
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Azathoth » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:26 am

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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:29 am

Seth wrote:I doubt it, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Zimmerman missive, which was intercepted by the British and decrypted by them and given to the press, I expect in order to get the US into the conflict, was fabricated by the Brits, though there is no evidence to support that theory.
The Germans claimed it, so that theory is shot.
The revelation of the German attempt to persuade Mexico to invade us (which they never did) inflamed public emotions and lead pretty much directly to our entry into the war. But Wilson had been banging the propaganda drum and incarcerating dissenters for quite some time prior.
So you don't care for Hofenhauer's theory?
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Seth » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:27 am

Gawdzilla wrote:
Seth wrote:I doubt it, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Zimmerman missive, which was intercepted by the British and decrypted by them and given to the press, I expect in order to get the US into the conflict, was fabricated by the Brits, though there is no evidence to support that theory.
The Germans claimed it, so that theory is shot.
Damn! I was hoping for something else to pin on Wilson, the fuckwad. As if he didn't do enough evil all by himself, of course.
The revelation of the German attempt to persuade Mexico to invade us (which they never did) inflamed public emotions and lead pretty much directly to our entry into the war. But Wilson had been banging the propaganda drum and incarcerating dissenters for quite some time prior.
So you don't care for Hofenhauer's theory?[/quote]

Never heard of it.
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Cormac » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:11 am

Tyrannical wrote:
charlou wrote:Flippancy aside, there are enlightened, peaceful cultures who mind their own business .... I try to imagine America in this light and it's a case of I'll believe it when I see it. Image

This is not a reflection of my thoughts on the appropriateness of intervention, btw.
The US used to be before we got dragged into WWI. Hardly a surprise the Germans would see to it that we get dragged into the sequel. That just set the stage for everything afterwards.
Not so sure.

Arguably it began with "Manifest Destiny" and Sea to Shining Sea", but more practically began with calls for the annexation of "All Mexico" after the accession of newly independent Texas into the Union.

Later, after the Spanish-American war America established Cuba as a "protectorate" (vassal state) and annexed Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines.

Engagement in WW1 can be seen in this light as a logical continuation of "Manifest Destiny" and "The Monroe Doctrine".

America has been establishing an Empire for at least 200 years, and was by no means dragged into interventionism.
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Tyrannical » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:54 am

Cormac wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
charlou wrote:Flippancy aside, there are enlightened, peaceful cultures who mind their own business .... I try to imagine America in this light and it's a case of I'll believe it when I see it. Image

This is not a reflection of my thoughts on the appropriateness of intervention, btw.
The US used to be before we got dragged into WWI. Hardly a surprise the Germans would see to it that we get dragged into the sequel. That just set the stage for everything afterwards.
Not so sure.

Arguably it began with "Manifest Destiny" and Sea to Shining Sea", but more practically began with calls for the annexation of "All Mexico" after the accession of newly independent Texas into the Union.

Later, after the Spanish-American war America established Cuba as a "protectorate" (vassal state) and annexed Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines.

Engagement in WW1 can be seen in this light as a logical continuation of "Manifest Destiny" and "The Monroe Doctrine".

America has been establishing an Empire for at least 200 years, and was by no means dragged into interventionism.
We were repulsing European influence in our hemisphere.
The American SW and Northern Mexico we acquired was sparsely populated. I think the Hispanic population was only around 50,000 in those areas.

And yes we fought a war with Spain.
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Seth wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:So you don't care for Hofenhauer's theory?
Never heard of it.
The Germans in WWI and WWII worked on a common principle, without deliberately trying to do so, that Germany could defeat England with U-booten before the US could become engaged in actively in the war. Hofenhauer examined this, using the minutes from the appropriate meetings and various other sources such as memiors, diaries, Kriegstagebuchen, etc. I don't know if his book has been translated into English yet, but I found his presentation fascinating. And his capacity for beer amazing.
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Cormac » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:01 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
charlou wrote:Flippancy aside, there are enlightened, peaceful cultures who mind their own business .... I try to imagine America in this light and it's a case of I'll believe it when I see it. Image

This is not a reflection of my thoughts on the appropriateness of intervention, btw.
The US used to be before we got dragged into WWI. Hardly a surprise the Germans would see to it that we get dragged into the sequel. That just set the stage for everything afterwards.
Not so sure.

Arguably it began with "Manifest Destiny" and Sea to Shining Sea", but more practically began with calls for the annexation of "All Mexico" after the accession of newly independent Texas into the Union.

Later, after the Spanish-American war America established Cuba as a "protectorate" (vassal state) and annexed Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines.

Engagement in WW1 can be seen in this light as a logical continuation of "Manifest Destiny" and "The Monroe Doctrine".

America has been establishing an Empire for at least 200 years, and was by no means dragged into interventionism.
We were repulsing European influence in our hemisphere.
The American SW and Northern Mexico we acquired was sparsely populated. I think the Hispanic population was only around 50,000 in those areas.

And yes we fought a war with Spain.
... and then denied independence to those countries, but took them as the spoils of war. Seems a bit like aggressive expansionism and empire to me...

What exactly do you mean by "repulsing European influence in [your] hemisphere?
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Pensioner » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:46 pm

Cormac wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
Cormac wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
charlou wrote:Flippancy aside, there are enlightened, peaceful cultures who mind their own business .... I try to imagine America in this light and it's a case of I'll believe it when I see it. Image

This is not a reflection of my thoughts on the appropriateness of intervention, btw.
The US used to be before we got dragged into WWI. Hardly a surprise the Germans would see to it that we get dragged into the sequel. That just set the stage for everything afterwards.
Not so sure.

Arguably it began with "Manifest Destiny" and Sea to Shining Sea", but more practically began with calls for the annexation of "All Mexico" after the accession of newly independent Texas into the Union.

Later, after the Spanish-American war America established Cuba as a "protectorate" (vassal state) and annexed Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines.

Engagement in WW1 can be seen in this light as a logical continuation of "Manifest Destiny" and "The Monroe Doctrine".

America has been establishing an Empire for at least 200 years, and was by no means dragged into interventionism.
We were repulsing European influence in our hemisphere.
The American SW and Northern Mexico we acquired was sparsely populated. I think the Hispanic population was only around 50,000 in those areas.

And yes we fought a war with Spain.
... and then denied independence to those countries, but took them as the spoils of war. Seems a bit like aggressive expansionism and empire to me...

What exactly do you mean by "repulsing European influence in [your] hemisphere?
I'm not sure what is meant by "repulsing European influence" ether. America has been influenced by European culture, music, law and language for centuries. You commie bastards.
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Re: So, Ron Paul is the pro-Peace candidate for US President

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:49 pm

LOL! The Mexicans took that area by force from the locals, so BFD if they lost it the same way, IMNSHO.
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