Tottenham Riots

[Exi5tentialist]

Tottenham, London has been ablaze overnight after the shooting dead of Mark Duggan. That the killing of Duggan was part of an self-avowedly racist policy by the police under Operation Trident, set up to deal with gun crime "in the black community" (yes, you read that right, that's what Operation Trident is, it's because black people need their own gun crime operation which can't even be subsumed in a pretence that it might target all gun crime) immediately casts suspicion on any ethical legitimacy of the police's self-defence excuse. The media, especially the BBC, appear to be very slow at reporting the full scale and significance of the unrest in Tottenham and the way it is spreading to other parts of North London, but the best commentaries so far are coming from The Guardian and Richard Seymour. Further accurate updates would be welcome, but this looks like being the first major unrest arising from and attributable to the right-wing Coalition Government's period of office - much of the background commentary is about the impact of savage cuts on local communities.

[Cormac]

Tottenham, London has been ablaze overnight after the shooting dead of Mark Duggan. That the killing of Duggan was part of an self-avowedly racist policy by the police under Operation Trident, set up to deal with gun crime "in the black community" (yes, you read that right, that's what Operation Trident is, it's because black people need their own gun crime operation which can't even be subsumed in a pretence that it might target all gun crime) immediately casts suspicion on any ethical legitimacy of the police's self-defence excuse. The media, especially the BBC, appear to be very slow at reporting the full scale and significance of the unrest in Tottenham and the way it is spreading to other parts of North London, but the best commentaries so far are coming from The Guardian and Richard Seymour. Further accurate updates would be welcome, but this looks like being the first major unrest arising from and attributable to the right-wing Coalition Government's period of office - much of the background commentary is about the impact of savage cuts on local communities.

Looks as if Trident is an initiative launched while Labour were in government. How is it a coalition policy?

[Exi5tentialist]

I didn't say it was a Coalition policy. You need to read the whole of what I said really.

[Rum]

OK then - let black kids in north London shoot each other if you like..

[Exi5tentialist]

OK then - let black kids in north London shoot each other if you like..

It is surprising, isn't it, that a Labour Government would tolerate a blatently racist policy explicitly targeting black people in particular rather than insisting that the operation be an evidence-based reaction to gun crime affecting the entire population. But black kids shooting each other isn't what has led to the unrest in Tottenham, it's the police shooting a black man. You see the racist connection?

And incidentally my point was about savage Coalition cuts. Here's a Guardian July 31st video about the closure of 13 Youth Centres in North London due to Coalition cuts, in which riots were undeniably predicted.

[Cormac]

I didn't say it was a Coalition policy. You need to read the whole of what I said really.

Seems to me that you did:

Further accurate updates would be welcome, but this looks like being the first major unrest arising from and attributable to the right-wing Coalition Government's period of office - much of the background commentary is about the impact of savage cuts on local communities.

[Rum]

Well in the name of political correctness by all means lets dodge the subject and its causes, double talk our way out of solutions and complicate the issues so much they don't make sense any more. I don't know the strategy in question, but if there is an issue with black males and guns in North London (and they are killing each other mostly let's remember) then why not tackle it head on? There are issues associated with young black males as a specific group in and around London. To characterise identifying that automatically as racist is intellectually lazy and just a politically correct knee jerk in my view.

[Exi5tentialist]

So Cormac - where in that sentence you quoted do I mention Operation Trident? Read it through very, very carefully three times.

Do you, like me, think it's surprising that a Labour Government would tolerate a racist policing operation? I do. But the sentence you quote refers to the way that the Coalition has compounded the problem with savage cuts. Maybe you are having trouble reading. Also see my answer above to Rum. Do you think the closure of 13 Youth Centres in North London might be in any way connected to this?

[Exi5tentialist]

Well in the name of political correctness by all means lets dodge the subject and its causes, double talk our way out of solutions and complicate the issues so much they don't make sense any more. I don't know the strategy in question, but if there is an issue with black males and guns in North London (and they are killing each other mostly let's remember) then why not tackle it head on? There are issues associated with young black males as a specific group in and around London. To characterise identifying that automatically as racist is intellectually lazy and just a politically correct knee jerk in my view.

It's just you seem to have missed the point. The issue is about police killing a black male. Sorry if you think I'm being too politically correct by suggesting this appears to be a sore point with the people of Tottenham.

[Cormac]

OK then - let black kids in north London shoot each other if you like..

It is surprising, isn't it, that a Labour Government would tolerate a blatently racist policy explicitly targeting black people in particular rather than insisting that the operation be an evidence-based reaction to gun crime affecting the entire population. But black kids shooting each other isn't what has led to the unrest in Tottenham, it's the police shooting a black man. You see the racist connection?

And incidentally my point was about savage Coalition cuts. Here's a Guardian July 31st video about the closure of 13 Youth Centres in North London due to Coalition cuts, in which riots were undeniably predicted.

And if the evidence clarified that a major problem for ordinary law abiding citizens who happen to be black, is gun crimes and drug gang activity exclusively impacting these black citizens, and committed exclusively by criminals who happen to be black?

Would it then be racist for the police to focus resources on the problem, or to waste operational resources by artificially widening the scope to salve the conscience of miffed multiculturalists? While the Met have an appalling record of racism, this operation is not on the face of it, racist. (In application it may be).

[Cormac]

So Cormac - where in that sentence you quoted do I mention Operation Trident? Read it through very, very carefully three times.

Do you, like me, think it's surprising that a Labour Government would tolerate a racist policing operation? I do. But the sentence you quote refers to the way that the Coalition has compounded the problem with savage cuts. Maybe you are having trouble reading. Also see my answer above to Rum. Do you think the closure of 13 Youth Centres in North London might be in any way connected to this?

Your post, as written seems to be arguing this:

1. Operation Trident is racist.
2. Racist police have murdered Mark Duggan
3. The riots are a consequence of this racist policy and the murder was the straw that broke the camel's back
4. This is attributable to the "right wing" coalition
5. There has been a reduction in funding to local community projects.

If this wasn't what you intended, then fine, but this is how it reads to me.

[Rum]

I have done a fast and messy quick background read (and will go back and read more), but one of the first things I came across stated that the initiative was established by people in the 'black community'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_ ... _Police%29

[MrJonno]

Yeah complaining about the evils of police racism (ie a drug dealer shooting at a policeman) by looting the local TV shop.

[Rum]

Yeah complaining about the evils of police racism (ie a drug dealer shooting at a policeman) by looting the local TV shop.

Quite so. I find myself getting a tad impatient with the apologists who blame everyone except those who are responsible for their own behaviour when people behave atrociously.

[Atheist-Lite]

Ethnic communities are racialist by nature and the answer is to disperse these ghettoes of poverty and desperation. Unfortutnately the new housing policy will lead to ever more ghettoisation as the poorest(the undsireable ones in the labor market (learning disabled, old, sick or colored) seek the lowest possible rent for housing in each town & city(rather than what is appropriate).