Death By Polar Bear

[mistermack]

mistermack, you are being a bit naive about bears there. I live in an area with ursus horribilus and my sweetheart has been in camp with a group who were attacked.
Your measures are not enough. The best way - the BEST way, is to have an experienced shooter with a gun and a mission. Bonus points if everyone can operate the gun safely.
Bear spray sounds good, but try it out. You will see that in a short time, the stuff will attract bears. (though at first it is fierce enough to deter them) Another problem with it is that it is not allowed for most air travel.
I have asked of the old folks around here, and I will quote a nice old lady named Gabby. She said "we always bring a shotgun into camp, and we have never had to use it yet."
I wanna be like her when I get old. To that end, I will take precautions such as you describe (and more!), but I will have that 12-guage (or the .338 WinMag) as back-up.

Wrong on all counts, I'm afraid.
Bear spray is more effective than bullets. A bear can keep on coming, and kill you, even after it's been hit with a heavy weapon. There have been many cases where hunters have been killed, after shooting a bear. There is no recorded case of someone being killed after deploying bear spray. If it can't see, it can't kill you, and the pain from the pepper should send it running anyway.

Yes, bears have been known to investigate the smell of pepper the day after it's been used, but that's because brown bears eat a lot of vegetable food. But you would have to be pretty dumb to hang around after a bear attack anyway.
Most people who carry bear spray would know to leave the scene.

Polar bears live almost exclusively on meat, and are not likely to be attracted to the smell of pepper in any case.

There is no reason why they could not have a supply of bear spray cans available to give to the kids on these camps. They don't need to fly them in. They did supply rifles and trained them in using guns. It didn't save those five people from death and injury.

So maybe it's true that one of us is a bit naive about bears. But I don't think it's me.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Why anyone would wander around Svalbard without a rifle (which most residents carry for that precise reason) is a question that can only be answered by sheep-like stupidity on the part of tourists, who seem to think that because they are tourists, the laws of nature somehow cease to apply to them.

Where in the news did you spot the information, that the group was unarmed? Afaik nobody leaves town in Svalbard unarmed or without having armed guards with them.

If their armed guard isn't up to killing a polar bear, they are effectively unarmed. And that's what I thought too. So, anybody know what became of their armed guard or arms?

Just watched a report about this on the news. They were all armed and had had rifle training before going on the expedition. Their camp was surrounded by "bear-flares" and tripwires which would set off a blank shotgun round to (supposedly) scare off any nosy bears and alert the campers to their presence.

The fact that a bear was allowed to get within "mauling" distance of a camper gives me the impression that they didn't take the situation seriously enough and were unwilling (or unable) to shoot the bear before it got too close.

Punching a bear on the nose or poking its eyes is a "last-resort" tactic that I have often heard quoted. It is the survival equivalent of a poker player betting all-in when he knows he has lost the hand - you never know...

Another thing I heard in the report was that one of the expedition leaders got badly mauled attempting to separate the bear from the student! Why he would attempt that with anything other than a gun is beyond me!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'll be at the Hilton.

[mistermack]

Just watched a report about this on the news. They were all armed and had had rifle training before going on the expedition. Their camp was surrounded by "bear-flares" and tripwires which would set off a blank shotgun round to (supposedly) scare off any nosy bears and alert the campers to their presence.

The fact that a bear was allowed to get within "mauling" distance of a camper gives me the impression that they didn't take the situation seriously enough and were unwilling (or unable) to shoot the bear before it got too close.

Punching a bear on the nose or poking its eyes is a "last-resort" tactic that I have often heard quoted. It is the survival equivalent of a poker player betting all-in when he knows he has lost the hand - you never know...

Another thing I heard in the report was that one of the expedition leaders got badly mauled attempting to separate the bear from the student! Why he would attempt that with anything other than a gun is beyond me!

It does seem that the precautions were weak.
A trip-wire that sets off a bang wouldn't fill me with confidence.
You can get portable electric fences that deliver a very hefty shock to a bear, and they are far more likely to clear off after that.
And if they all had a can of bear spray on their belts, that guy wouldn't have needed to get so close to the bear to try to stop it killing that kid.
Four lots of bear spray would certainly stop any bear.

[FBM]

Those who go out into the wilds without a firearm are what we in the hunting biz like to call "lunch."

Or "bait."

[Tero]

There is plenty of Wilderness to have exciting camps at in Lapland, without polar bears. The brown bears need food too! Go here, Norwegian Lapland, next time Brits:


You can fly direct to Rovaniemi also.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There is plenty of Wilderness to have exciting camps at in Lapland, without polar bears. The brown bears need food too! Go here, Norwegian Lapland, next time Brits:


You can fly direct to Rovaniemi also.

[Feck]

Those who go out into the wilds without a firearm are what we in the hunting biz like to call "lunch."

Or "bait."

I shall refer to my sig again . There are plenty of ways to be in the wilds without having to carry a gun this idea that lethal force must be carried at all times just in case the worst happens is Fear . Granted if you go too look at polar bears you should take precautions esp ones that are used to human camps containing food . But it shows a lack of morality If you have placed yourself in a situation that the only way you can protect your self from the animal you have gone to view is to shoot the thing then you should have stayed at home

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Heinlein makes an interesting argument against being armed in the wild in Starship Troopers.

[pErvinalia]

But it shows a lack of morality If you have placed yourself in a situation that the only way you can protect your self from the animal you have gone to view is to shoot the thing then you should have stayed at home

[FBM]

But it shows a lack of morality If you have placed yourself in a situation that the only way you can protect your self from the animal you have gone to view is to shoot the thing then you should have stayed at home

I agree as well, but I'm still taking a gun or I'm not going. I played "Ring Around the Picnic Table" once with a black bear in TN. I had a 9mm on me but never even drew it. If you don't panic, neither will the bear. Usually.

[pErvinalia]

I should admit that, while I live in Australia and virtually everything is deadly here, we don't have things like bears to worry about while taking a gentle stroll in the bush. I'd probably carry something of some sort if I was walking around in Canada or Norway or whatever.

[MiM]

I should admit that, while I live in Australia and virtually everything is deadly here, we don't have things like bears to worry about while taking a gentle stroll in the bush. I'd probably carry something of some sort if I was walking around in Canada or Norway or whatever.

Norway is quite safe (you might fall of a cliff, though), as long as you don't go into the "northern archipelago".

[Feck]

But it shows a lack of morality If you have placed yourself in a situation that the only way you can protect your self from the animal you have gone to view is to shoot the thing then you should have stayed at home

I agree as well, but I'm still taking a gun or I'm not going. I played "Ring Around the Picnic Table" once with a black bear in TN. I had a 9mm on me but never even drew it. If you don't panic, neither will the bear. Usually.

yeah but it trust you with a gun FBM It's Most people I don't !

[FBM]

But it shows a lack of morality If you have placed yourself in a situation that the only way you can protect your self from the animal you have gone to view is to shoot the thing then you should have stayed at home

I agree as well, but I'm still taking a gun or I'm not going. I played "Ring Around the Picnic Table" once with a black bear in TN. I had a 9mm on me but never even drew it. If you don't panic, neither will the bear. Usually.

yeah but it trust you with a gun FBM It's Most people I don't !

We agree yet again.