White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by hadespussercats » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:49 pm

Animavore wrote:
hadespussercats wrote:
Animavore wrote:How long ago were you in Ireland? It was like that when I was a child growing up. Not any more.
Anyway I never said we weren't racist. I said we don't have a history of it. We weren't running around enslaving people, stealing their land, raping, pillaging etc... like the rest of Europe. We were practically slaves ourselves.
2004. So, a while ago-- but not that long. We traveled all over, but stayed with family in a tiny town near Galway. I just remember feeling so sorry for this one man, walking up the main drag in Galway City-- thinking he must be feeling the way I did the first time I walked around Harlem. Except in Harlem, I was the only one noticing me-- this guy had people literally craning their necks, slowing down cars, to watch him just going about his business.

And your clarification makes sense. I've heard the "blacks of Europe" designation before. The Irish were too busy being victimized to build up much of a history of victimizing other people.

But I was just remembering my brother-in-law's uncle Joe-- a dairy farmer. He had three border collies that were black and white, and he named them Sootie, Jacko (like Michael Jackson), and Tiger Woods. He remarked at one point that in the summer he got "as black as a nigger."

Funny. But... pretty racist.

(Yeah, I know-- just one guy...)
Well Irish people have always said "black as a nigger" when I was young. I never saw it as racist because there was never any malice in saying it. In fact when I was a teen and was listening to hip-hop and gaining sympathy for black people my auntie said it and my cousin said she shoudn't say that and my auntie just looked at her and said, "What?" like she couldn't see the problem.
It's compicated.
Yeah. It is. All over. :sigh:
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by hadespussercats » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:52 pm

Seth wrote:
mistermack wrote:The word nigger was not considered racist or insulting in this country when I was a kid.
Maybe not to you, but then again, you're not black, so your perceptions are somewhat more than a little skewed and inaccurate.
Yeah-- white people agreeing that something isn't racist doesn't mean anything from the non-white perspective.
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Robert_S » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:01 pm

hadespussercats wrote:
Seth wrote:
mistermack wrote:The word nigger was not considered racist or insulting in this country when I was a kid.
Maybe not to you, but then again, you're not black, so your perceptions are somewhat more than a little skewed and inaccurate.
Yeah-- white people agreeing that something isn't racist doesn't mean anything from the non-white perspective.
The word has taken on racist meaning from it's history in the US. I don't know whether or not it has the same history in Europe and those Isles.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by mistermack » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:08 pm

hadespussercats wrote: Yeah-- white people agreeing that something isn't racist doesn't mean anything from the non-white perspective.
Maybe, maybe not. Black people can call each other niggers, and do. It's the meaning and intent by the speaker that counts. Most people now know that nigger would be taken as an insult, so they only say it if they mean to insult.

In the 1950s in England, it wasn't said as an insult. Black people were either negros or niggers. That was the word. NOBODY said "black people" back then.
However, black people came in as immigrants, and nigger might have been an insult where they came from, but in England it was a normal word.
It changed gradually, not overnight. And it gradually got more of an insult. At the start it was quite mild. Now it's very offensive. So I'm sure there were people saying nigger who meant no offence, and black people taking offence. That's life.
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Animavore » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:25 pm

hadespussercats wrote:Yeah. It is. All over.
My main point is that Ireland isn't steeped in deep racism like Europe and America where whole ideologies based on purity, blood and supremacy exist. The Irish are too self-effacing and humbled by centuries of religious and political oppression and repression for that. We are the antithesis of the master race. So when an old Irish person talks about them "nig-nogs" there's something almost quaint about it. It's generally not used in as strong a tone as other white countries. There's nothing funnier to an Irish person than when a black person not getting their way pulls the race card. It's met with an incredulous, "Where do you think you are? Or who do you think you're talking to? Go on out of that and quit your nonsense."
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Ironclad » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:35 pm

Animavore wrote:How long ago were you in Ireland? It was like that when I was a child growing up. Not any more.
Anyway I never said we weren't racist. I said we don't have a history of it. We weren't running around enslaving people, stealing their land, raping, pillaging etc... like the rest of Europe. We were practically slaves ourselves.
Now, you are quite sure about that, Ani? :tea:

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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Tyrannical » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:36 pm

Opposition to racism and ethnic equality is primarily a Western European derived value. Most of the rest of the World is very happy to practice ethnic racism as the norm.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Animavore » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:38 pm

Ironclad wrote:
Animavore wrote:How long ago were you in Ireland? It was like that when I was a child growing up. Not any more.
Anyway I never said we weren't racist. I said we don't have a history of it. We weren't running around enslaving people, stealing their land, raping, pillaging etc... like the rest of Europe. We were practically slaves ourselves.
Now, you are quite sure about that, Ani? :tea:

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Not as a country. No. Yes individuals went off and assimilated into other groups and joined into such activities but Ireland itself never colonised lands.
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Hermit » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:49 pm

Tyrannical wrote:Most of the rest of the World is very happy to practice ethnic racism as the norm.
So...?
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Robert_S » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:51 pm

Seraph wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:Most of the rest of the World is very happy to practice ethnic racism as the norm.
So...?
Anti-racism = cultural imperialism?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Seth » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:01 pm

Tyrannical wrote:Opposition to racism and ethnic equality is primarily a Western European derived value. Most of the rest of the World is very happy to practice ethnic racism as the norm.
Very true.
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Hermit » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:09 pm

Robert_S wrote:
Seraph wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:Most of the rest of the World is very happy to practice ethnic racism as the norm.
So...?
Anti-racism = cultural imperialism?
Racism =/= cultural imperialism?

I'm confused. Perhaps Tyrannical can enlighten me.
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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Seth » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:27 pm

Seraph wrote:
Robert_S wrote:
Seraph wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:Most of the rest of the World is very happy to practice ethnic racism as the norm.
So...?
Anti-racism = cultural imperialism?
Racism =/= cultural imperialism?

I'm confused. Perhaps Tyrannical can enlighten me.
I think Robert_S means that Tyrannical's claim that most of the world practices ethnic racism as a norm could be viewed from the other perspective as efforts at anti-racism being a form of cultural imperialism from the West. In other words, by what right do we Westerners presume to try to dictate to the Han Chinese that they must be ethnically or culturally diverse and accepting of other ethnicities that Han Chinese culture views as racially or ethnically inferior?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Tyrannical » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:56 pm

Seraph wrote:
Robert_S wrote:
Seraph wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:Most of the rest of the World is very happy to practice ethnic racism as the norm.
So...?
Anti-racism = cultural imperialism?
Racism =/= cultural imperialism?

I'm confused. Perhaps Tyrannical can enlighten me.
Perhaps it would be more obvious to you if I used misogyny as an example instead. The concept of women's rights and equality is once again a Western European ideology, one that we have been forcing on other cultures for quite some time.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: White child tortured by jeering Chinese crowd

Post by Hermit » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:04 pm

Seth wrote:I think Robert_S means that Tyrannical's claim that most of the world practices ethnic racism as a norm could be viewed from the other perspective as efforts at anti-racism being a form of cultural imperialism from the West. In other words, by what right do we Westerners presume to try to dictate to the Han Chinese that they must be ethnically or culturally diverse and accepting of other ethnicities that Han Chinese culture views as racially or ethnically inferior?
Yes. Ignoring the fact that Robert_S used a question mark, I got that. What I don't get, is what differentiates anti-racism from racism in terms of cultural imperialism. Throughout history and all over the world racism has always been a rationalisation for it, be it demands for lebensraum, the plundering of other countries' populations for slave labour or other countries for coffee, tea, rubber, et cetera plantations, or what have you. Britain went so far as to annex Australia on the pretext that it was terra nullius, a land that was not inhabited by humans. How much more racist can one's imperial ambitions get than to refuse to recognise an entire ethnic strain of humans as part of the human race?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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