Oslo Blast Gun Derail

[Svartalf]

Man dressed as police man gets off boat asks if they have heard about the bomb , says it was an attack on the party ,asks if there are any guns held on the Island ... The idea if there were guns held on the island there would have been no massacre is not certain is it ?

the last figures I saw for the US stated that the ratio of crimes commited using guns to crimes stopped by guns was about 6:1

but have you checked that same rate for countries where the population does not have easy access to weaponry?

[Seth]

Woohoo! Neighbor was killed for having a fishing rod! That fucking passive father of three deserved it for having such an edgy hobby as fishing!

The actual example I was thinking of was a chair leg in a plastic bag (and the guy did have a record for armed robbery) , but if tragic mistakes like that are the price of ensuring we don't get guns flooding the streets then its a price that society has to pay

Cowardly fucks are always willing to sacrifice someone else to their fear and ideological idiocy. I'm guessing however that when those selfsame cowardly fucks get executed by the police using the very rules they set out because they are adjusting the logs on their fire when the police blow down their door on report of "something long and thin in his hand that looks like a gun," they will be talking out the hole in the back of their chest.

[Svartalf]

Could someone tell me of prohibition that is completely effective?

Eh? prohibition is always completely effective in multiplying contraband circuits and at lining smugglers pocketses.

[FBM]

OK, so maybe he never intended a sootout with the police, but he still had an hour and a half to shoot unarmed people at will, without challenge. If there had been at least one among the 250 people on the island legally registered to carry a firearm, that person would've had at least a chance to save dozens.

The guy had planned and plotted for nine years.
One of the first things he did when he got on the island was to walk in to the house where the off-duty cop was, on a sivil job there as a guard, and shot him dead. The cop was dead before he even got suspicious. How would a gun help the competent cop in this situation?
Seems like Breivik had a lot of intel on the targets, no?

If somebody plans for 9 years to kill, somebody's most likely going to die. We weren't even talking about armed police in the first place, we were talking about armed citizens. OK, the cop was the first to go, and he was maybe the only cop on duty. Without trained and armed citizens, they had to wait 90 minutes, during which psycho racked up his body count. If there had been a citizen or two who had been allowed to carry a firearm, among the 250 present, the body count would almost certanly have been much lower. It's just common sense. Perhaps it's common sense that has been bred out of you city folk?

[Thinking Aloud]

You know what? I'm just about sick of hearing people who live in countries that don't allow casual gun ownership (i.e. a lot of us) categorised as "cowardly, paranoid, panty-waist pussy of a worthless waste of oxygen", "helpless, shivering sheeple", "already effectively dead", "emasculated PC sheep/drones", "cowardly fucks", "Perhaps it's common sense that has been bred out of you city folk".

I don't give a damn that you're responding to MrJonno. Every time you defend your stance using these pathetic and demeaning insults, you fire them not just at him, but at every other person who has grown up with no need whatsoever for casual gun ownership. And that includes me.

Fortunately for you, there are no "group insult" rules on this board. Carry on.

[MrJonno]

The fact that my neighbor is a cowardly, paranoid, panty-waist pussy of a worthless waste of oxygen and carbon who fears his neighbors so much that he's willing to sacrifice them to criminal violence just so he can feel better doesn't have any effect on my right to be lawfully armed for self defense. He'll just have to cower inside his house and piss his pants at the thought that everyone around him has more courage and fortitude than he does and that they have resolved not to be helpless, shivering sheeple.

I could cower or I could just get society to shoot the cunt that wants to wander around with a deadly firearm knowing it will get him a mandatory 5 years in jail. I feel safe the neighbour no longer feels anything society wins

[FBM]

Help! Society! Help! I'm being assaulted! Oh, woe is me!



How about, I dunno, defending yourself? Sorry if that sounds like an insult.

[MrJonno]

If somebody plans for 9 years to kill, somebody's most likely going to die. We weren't even talking about armed police in the first place, we were talking about armed citizens. OK, the cop was the first to go, and he was maybe the only cop on duty. Without trained and armed citizens, they had to wait 90 minutes, during which psycho racked up his body count. If there had been a citizen or two who had been allowed to carry a firearm, among the 250 present, the body count would almost certanly have been much lower. It's just common sense. Perhaps it's common sense that has been bred out of you city folk?

You mean there are people who live outside cities?, To be honest not many in Europe vast majority of us live in high density cities. Wouldnt catch me dead living anywhere that didnt have a million people within an hours walking distance

The more people with guns the more likely you are going to get one shooting up a school that to me is 'common' sense in fact want to shoot up a school become a teacher fantastic

[MrJonno]

You know what? I'm just about sick of hearing people who live in countries that don't allow casual gun ownership (i.e. a lot of us) categorised as "cowardly, paranoid, panty-waist pussy of a worthless waste of oxygen", "helpless, shivering sheeple", "already effectively dead", "emasculated PC sheep/drones", "cowardly fucks", "Perhaps it's common sense that has been bred out of you city folk".

I don't give a damn that you're responding to MrJonno. Every time you defend your stance using these pathetic and demeaning insults, you fire them not just at him, but at every other person who has grown up with no need whatsoever for casual gun ownership. And that includes me.

Fortunately for you, there are no "group insult" rules on this board. Carry on.

Wouldnt worry about it too much, the language they use is exactly the same as the Norwegian psycho used and I would be as impressed with him asking for wider gun access as I am by them

[charlou]

You know what? I'm just about sick of hearing people who live in countries that don't allow casual gun ownership (i.e. a lot of us) categorised as "cowardly, paranoid, panty-waist pussy of a worthless waste of oxygen", "helpless, shivering sheeple", "already effectively dead", "emasculated PC sheep/drones", "cowardly fucks", "Perhaps it's common sense that has been bred out of you city folk".

I don't give a damn that you're responding to MrJonno. Every time you defend your stance using these pathetic and demeaning insults, you fire them not just at him, but at every other person who has grown up with no need whatsoever for casual gun ownership. And that includes me.

I see where you're coming from, TA.

Fortunately for you, there are no "group insult" rules on this board. Carry on.

Fortunately for all of us, I think.

Why did you add that last bit, TA? You made your point well enough, then added that last bit ... for what purpose? Not a moderatorly attempt to put a person in their place ... a reference to your position in order to prop up or boost your point, I hope? So unnecessary when you can make your point well enough without.

[FBM]

If somebody plans for 9 years to kill, somebody's most likely going to die. We weren't even talking about armed police in the first place, we were talking about armed citizens. OK, the cop was the first to go, and he was maybe the only cop on duty. Without trained and armed citizens, they had to wait 90 minutes, during which psycho racked up his body count. If there had been a citizen or two who had been allowed to carry a firearm, among the 250 present, the body count would almost certanly have been much lower. It's just common sense. Perhaps it's common sense that has been bred out of you city folk?

You mean there are people who live outside cities?, To be honest not many in Europe vast majority of us live in high density cities. Wouldnt catch me dead living anywhere that didnt have a million people within an hours walking distance

The more people with guns the more likely you are going to get one shooting up a school that to me is 'common' sense in fact want to shoot up a school become a teacher fantastic

I am a teacher and also a gun owner. How in the hell have I managed to miss out on 15 years of potential slaughter? I fail as a gun-owning lunatic.

[mistermack]

Hunters and veterans, for example.

Strange, the very people most likely to end up as a loony gunman.

Evidence, please.

Is this some form of homeopathy? Fight the infection with the infection?
Would they have to be diluted a hundred thousand times?

Hunters and veterans are more likely to have been taught weapons discipline. Combat veterans and game hunters have seen things die and the sane ones know it's not a game.

There's a reason John Wayne wasn't a real Marine.

You just see what you want to see.
I've seen the video of US airmen blowing people apart and laughing. Supposedly highly trained military treating humans as a big joke.
You have to have something wrong with you to join the military, or go hunting.

I used to go hunting. I was too young to know better, and I regret it now. But at least I grew up.

[FBM]

I used to go hunting. I was too young to know better, and I regret it now. But at least I grew up.

That philosophy works really well for those blessed ones who have never been really hungry.

[Thinking Aloud]

Why did you add that last bit, TA? You made your point well enough, then added that last bit ... for what purpose? Not a moderatorly attempt to put a person in their place ... a reference to your position in order to prop up or boost your point, I hope? So unnecessary when you can make your point well enough without.

Bloody hell, Charlou, no it wasn't. I'd have made exactly the same post regardless.

I added that bit to point out that those who have been using the phrases I quoted are hiding behind their generalisations to post things that would be considered personal attacks if they were being addressed to an individual, which as far as I'm concerned is nothing more than ad hom in disguise.

And I'm saddened that you still seem to think I have some kind of agenda, or that I consider my "position" on staff something I can wield as a weapon of superiority.

[Seth]

You know what? I'm just about sick of hearing people who live in countries that don't allow casual gun ownership (i.e. a lot of us) categorised as "cowardly, paranoid, panty-waist pussy of a worthless waste of oxygen", "helpless, shivering sheeple", "already effectively dead", "emasculated PC sheep/drones", "cowardly fucks", "Perhaps it's common sense that has been bred out of you city folk".

I don't give a damn that you're responding to MrJonno. Every time you defend your stance using these pathetic and demeaning insults, you fire them not just at him, but at every other person who has grown up with no need whatsoever for casual gun ownership. And that includes me.

Fortunately for you, there are no "group insult" rules on this board. Carry on.

Don't mistake "need" for "perception of need." Those people in Oslo didn't think they needed lawful concealed carry laws. They were wrong. So are you.

You can make a personal choice not to carry a firearm. That is your absolute and unassailable natural, unalienable human right. However, you may not morally impose that decision by law on ANYONE ELSE. To say that because YOU perceive no need to carry a gun, that this justifies supporting laws that prohibit OTHERS from doing so if their perceptions are different is simply immoral. I recognize that many people don't perceive such a need because they have never been victimized and have been propagandized into believing that the police will protect them.

Well, here's your wake-up call. You aren't safe, the government can't protect you, the police won't be there when you need them, and if you don't provide for your own safety, the chances that anyone else will intervene to save you are vanishingly small. That's not an insult, that's a fact.

As for the insults, they are directed at MrJonno because MrJonno is directing insults at concerned, law-abiding armed citizens such as myself, and I'll not let that pass.

If the shoe fits, wear it. Otherwise you might consider repudiating the aspersions of MrJonno instead of taking offense. To me, that you take offense indicates a certain degree of guilt on your part and at least a tacit acknowledgment that I'm right, and that you're a bit uncomfortable that the truths I state are hitting a little too close to home and you feel vulnerable.

I don't blame you personally for the actions of your government. None of us has much individual chance to change public policy that is so deeply ingrained and indoctrinated into a society as hoplophobia is in Europeans, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to speak the truth and point out that it's more than a little hypocritical to lament the deaths in Oslo while tacitly or explicitly supporting the very government policies that facilitate such horrors, even through simple ignorance and unconcern.

If the insults directed at MrJonno have the effect of firing you up so that you decide to join the debate, then it's worth it because nothing will change if there is no dialogue on the subject. Complacence is the enemy of survival, and serves to facilitate the aims of terrorists and deranged killers alike. If you're angry at being characterized as a sheeple, then don't be a sheeple, it's just that simple. If you still deny that you are at risk, and you wish to live in that delusion, that's your choice, but don't blame me for pointing out the delusion and railing against the attitudes that get people killed en masse. I care too much about YOU, and your life, and the life of every innocent person to remain silent or play the politically-correct games of obfuscation and circumlocution that you might prefer. I tell it like it is. If you choose to live your life unarmed in rational knowledge and understanding of the risks you face, I respect that and it's a position of courage that deserves that respect. If you choose to live your life in ignorance, denial and delusion about the risks you face, that too is your choice and I respect it. But when someone lives in delusion and uses that delusion as an excuse to render OTHER PEOPLE helpless and defenseless through the expedient of government action, like MrJonno does, that is morally reprehensible and a cowardly, evil thing to do, and I'll say so.

Make choices for yourself, not others. Don't be a sheeple. Demand that your government respect your individual right to choose whether or not to be armed in self-defense, don't allow it to tell you that you must be a defenseless victim.