Oslo Blast Gun Derail

[MrJonno]

And that follows from an emotional, PC conviction that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, every gun owner is a gun nut. Black-and-white thinking that ignores the relevant statistics. Millions of gun-owners didn't shoot anyone today. How many people were killed with something other than a gun today? Every gun owner I know would've done what they could to stop that lone loon. Gun laws being what they are there, though, people in these situations will just have to keep getting shot at for 90 minutes until the police finally show up.

No but I would certainly suggest that anyone who goes on about marxist conspiracies to take away their inalienable rights should be locked up pronto whether they have firearms or not, ditto for anyone with a firearm who uses the word patriot

[Robert_S]

I think the very point some people are trying to make is objectively reasonable: If some of the victims had been armed and competent, the call to the police would have been to report an attempted massacre.

I think the point that other people are making is the sort of people who make those points are the types who were committing those acts of mass murder.

I can guarantee gun laws are not going to be relaxed after this, there will be a mass crack down on them

Another crackdown. Crack down on thoughts, crackdown on guns... What's next? A crackdown on the wrong kinds of music or the wrong hairstyles? Maybe the wrong dance moves?

I'd bet that not doing a damn thing and giving those people who have hateful ideologies a chance to rethink their positions would be most effective.

[FBM]

I'm not affiliated with Seth or anyone else wrt this issue. I don't know enough about his politics to even form an opinion about them. I'm not talking about him when I make my comments about preferring to have a right to defend myself and others from loonies like that guy in Norway. There's a middle ground between the sort of police state you seem to prefer and the free-for-all state that some rabid gun nuts want. It's making provisions for people who can prove that they are not dangerous to own and carry, if for no other reason than to be available to save lives in situations like in Norway, VA Tech, etc. Prohibition doesn't work any better for firearms than it does for drugs or alcohol. Look around you. Count the bodies. Prohibition doesn't work.

[MrJonno]

I'm not affiliated with Seth or anyone else wrt this issue. I don't know enough about his politics to even form an opinion about them. I'm not talking about him when I make my comments about preferring to have a right to defend myself and others from loonies like that guy in Norway. There's a middle ground between the sort of police state you seem to prefer and the free-for-all state that some rabid gun nuts want. It's making provisions for people who can prove that they are not dangerous to own and carry, if for no other reason than to be available to save lives in situations like in Norway, VA Tech, etc. Prohibition doesn't work any better for firearms than it does for drugs or alcohol. Look around you. Count the bodies. Prohibition doesn't work.

Never seen a handgun outside a musuem or on tv, prohibition works fine and I don't differentiate between good and bad people when it comes to carrying deadly force. The minimum penalty for carrying a handgun is 5 years here but in reality you have a fair chance of not making it trial alive which is fine by me

[FBM]

I'm not affiliated with Seth or anyone else wrt this issue. I don't know enough about his politics to even form an opinion about them. I'm not talking about him when I make my comments about preferring to have a right to defend myself and others from loonies like that guy in Norway. There's a middle ground between the sort of police state you seem to prefer and the free-for-all state that some rabid gun nuts want. It's making provisions for people who can prove that they are not dangerous to own and carry, if for no other reason than to be available to save lives in situations like in Norway, VA Tech, etc. Prohibition doesn't work any better for firearms than it does for drugs or alcohol. Look around you. Count the bodies. Prohibition doesn't work.

Never seen a handgun outside a musuem or on tv, prohibition works fine and I don't differentiate between good and bad people when it comes to carrying deadly force. The minimum penalty for carrying a handgun is 5 years here but in reality you have a fair chance of not making it trial alive which is fine by me

It's working fine? Then you're OK with the occasional slaughter of schoolchildren?

[MrJonno]

It's working fine? Then you're OK with the occasional slaughter of schoolchildren?

To avoid the mass regular slaughter in US yes, thats an absolute no brainer and a decision the civilized world has made a long long time ago

[Rum]

we in the police trade like to call "corpses" when they get attacked.

[FBM]

It's working fine? Then you're OK with the occasional slaughter of schoolchildren?

To avoid the mass regular slaughter in US yes, thats an absolute no brainer and a decision the civilized word has made a long long time ago

"mass regular slaughter"?

OK, dude, fine. It's funny how you point your finger at others and label them extremists and nuts.

[MrJonno]

The US has a murder rate that approaches most other countries civil wars, if to prevent that we have the occassional psycho gun man killing people then so be it.

Min 5 years for possessing a firearm and l execution of anyone who doesnt immediately put their weapon down when asked to isnt 'extremist' it is a policy that has zero political opposition in the UK. So if I'm an extremist then so is 99.99% of the population of th eUK

[FBM]

The US has a murder rate that approaches most other countries civil wars, if to prevent that we have the occassional psycho gun man killing people then so be it.

I'd like to see some statistics that show the US FIREARM murder rate approaches the death rate of "most other countries civil wars." You're just spouting nonsensical, empty rhetoric.

Min 5 years for possessing a firearm and l execution of anyone who doesnt immediately put their weapon down when asked to isnt 'extremist' it is a policy that has zero political opposition in the UK. So if I'm an extremist then so is 99.99% of the population of th eUK

Ah. Killing is wrong, so quickly kill anyone whom you think might look like a threat.

You're assuming that armed police will be around every time some loon draws a weapon. Remember that thing in Norway recently? It was all over the news.

[MrJonno]

You're assuming that armed police will be around every time some loon draws a weapon. Remember that thing in Norway recently? It was all over the news.

I'm assuming due to the lack of firearms around that this is extremely unlikely (correctly), Norwegian police by the way arent armed as standard only special units carry them and even after this tragedy I would be surprised if this changes

[FBM]

You're assuming that armed police will be around every time some loon draws a weapon. Remember that thing in Norway recently? It was all over the news.

I'm assuming due to the lack of firearms around that this is extremely unlikely (correctly), Norwegian police by the way arent armed as standard only special units carry them and even after this tragedy I would be surprised if this changes

And so the bodies piled up while they were waiting.

[Thinking Aloud]

Apologies if it's been posted (or debunked) before.

There's a great table on Wikipedia here (you can sort it by columns) that lists % homicides (intentional) with firearms against firearm homicide rate per 100,000, vs non-gun and total homicide rates - though the page advises that you read the data with caution, as definitions of particular crimes vary from place to place.

All I can say from reading this is that "England and Wales" is pretty close to one end of the scale in all statistics.

[MrJonno]

And so the bodies piled up while they were waiting.

About 14000 per year in the US I believe

The Norwegians need to review their intelligence into far right (patriot) groups look into restricting gun access and maybe review their emergency procedues which I'm sure they will do

[Robert_S]

Never seen a handgun outside a musuem or on tv, prohibition works fine and I don't differentiate between good and bad people when it comes to carrying deadly force. The minimum penalty for carrying a handgun is 5 years here but in reality you have a fair chance of not making it trial alive which is fine by me

I've seen quite a few handguns in the hands of quite a lot of people. Rifles and shotguns too. It doesn't bother me when they are legal and most of the ones I've seen were out at my dad's gun club. I'll target or skeet shoot there now and then as a way to do something with my dad. The politics of those guys made me nervous, but it was mainly about what the guys they would vote for would do to the country, but I was never scared of the guns themselves.

Also, there are factors other than the mere availability of effective tools that can explain the crime rates in the US.