Oslo Blast Gun Derail

[Coito ergo sum]

This is almost enough to make me wonder whether some of our US posters might be right...

If there was an "armed citizen" or two around, maybe they could have got the arsehole and reduced the death toll...

Or, maybe the Swiss. Maybe they're right. Nobody likes to say Americans are right, but it's easy to say the Swiss might be right.

No idea about that one?

Almost every household in Switzerland has a gun or guns. The government sponsors training with rifles and shooting in competitions for interested adolescents, both male and female. The sale of ammunition – including Gw Pat.90 rounds for army-issue assault rifles – is subsidized by the Swiss government and made available at the many shooting ranges patronized by both private citizens and members of the militia. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million. Their population is about 7 million. With that, the Swiss have a very low intentional homicide rate overall and very low gun crime rate.

[Svartalf]

Gun culture and the fetishisation of firearms in this country nauseates and embarrasses me - I do hope that I am able to move away, someday...

to a place that has drinking as much booze as fast as you can culture and that fetishizes chavs?

[Gawd]

This news is miserable enough, but reading through this thread makes it worse for me. Seeing people like Seth, sandinista and Gawd chime in fills me with doubts and questions. Like, are Seth and Gawd really just Poes exagerrating an online persona for the sake of seeing the reactions they get, or are they really that loony in person? If it's the former, what is it about internet forums that facilitates this phenomenon with some people? And if it's the latter, why do people from the angry fringes of society feel such a need to jump into discussions when horrific tragedies like this happen? And why do they stick around forums like this month after month, knowing full well that the great majority of people have zero respect for what they have to say? Just because they like to say it, regardless of all the hate & discontent they spread? This forum is supposed to be a social place - I guess I'm just griping that we have some decidedly antisocial people here, and they won't leave.

I'm not such a fan of your support for American terrorists.

[Ian]

So go start a thread about that.

[Eriku]

Your pettiness in this thread is astounding. I've tried to argue as best as I can for the continued Norwegian mode of thinking in matters like these, and have pointed to stats that tell us that Norway is in no-way being generally overrun by people with guns preying on those without. All I get back is "morons", and how we're "ignorant" and that I'm stupid and deserve to be slaughtered like a sheep.

You really need to sort your hateful self out.

Norway has a very low intentional homicide rate -- 0.64. Even for Europe, that's low. So, they are a peaceful people, and the lack of guns in the hands of citizens, in the case of Norway, does not appear to be causing Norwegians to be victimized. It might have in this case, though. I can't help wishing someone plugged this guy before he could reload.

There will always be sick, deranged individuals. We've never seen casualties like this outside of war time, though, so I don't agree with Seth trying to use this incident as a point about Norway being unsafe and victimised due to our gun policies.

I wouldn't have minded if someone had been there with a gun, lawfully or not, and had taken the bastard down... but that's what-if and woulda-coulda-shoulda thinking as far as I'm concerned.

And just on your point of thinking it's over the top by Rum to say that Seth's comment make him feel ill, you don't think saying things like we deserve to be slaughtered like sheep for willing Norway to stick to its restrictive gun policies is an odious way to get your point across, even if it were ever-so true and valid?

I appreciate that Seth was there at Columbine (if it's true), but that doesn't mean he gets to tell us we're stupid, immoral and deserving of death for disagreeing with him.

Seth... your methods of discussing are callous and thuggish.

[MrJonno]

Someone with an ideology not that far off of the person who killed all those kids posts saying how it should be easier for people with such an ideology to have firearms to commit such massacres. Read the killers statement and then read certain libertarian postings here and notice the similarities

Yeah thats pretty twisted and fucked up, luckily I'm sure the Norwegians and other Europeans will act in the completely opposite way and liberalism will be strengthened because of this (what liberatarian sociopaths call Marxism) and there will be a complete crackdown on these 'patriotic' anti-marixst anti non-white freaks

[Eriku]

Someone with an ideology not that far off of the person who killed all those kids posts saying how it should be easier for people with such an ideology to have firearms to commit such massacres. Read the killers statement and then read certain libertarian postings here and notice the similarities

Yeah thats pretty twisted and fucked up, luckily I'm sure the Norwegians and other Europeans will act in the completely opposite way and liberalism will be strengthened because of this (what liberatarian sociopaths call Marxism) and there will be a complete crackdown on these 'patriotic' anti-marixst anti non-white freaks

Thankfully you seem to be right. We're all the more committed to our ideals in the wake of this.

A young AUF member, in an interview on CNN was asked if they now wanted to fight terror. Her response was:
"If one man can show this much hate, think how much love we can show together."

[Robert_S]

Anyone think a gun derail is in order?

[MrJonno]

Trust me, if I'd been there, and armed, and someone dressed in a police uniform opened fire on unarmed innocent citizens, I'd do my level best to take him out, which would give others a chance to escape.

Unfortunately there was someone there with a very similar ideology (I would so much like to say what I really think but the posting rules don't allow it but yes you can infer what I really think from this) there and hopefully the Norwegians will seriously crack down on them

[Rum]

I love the idea of a personal arms race, don't you? People out gunning and out knifing all their neighbours and the potential bad guys until we get to what the USA and USSR had ..only personal - MAD! That was really sane wasn't it?

Free enterprise and an unregulated market would love it for fuck sake!

Talk about twattage..

[Atheist-Lite]

I love the idea of a personal arms race, don't you? People out gunning and out knifing all their neighbours and the potential bad guys until we get to what the USA and USSR had ..only personal - MAD! That was really sane wasn't it?

Free enterprise and an unregulated market would love it for fuck sake!

Talk about twattage..

Worked well for the Romans. Sad thing is that it really did work well for the Romans, and it lasted.

[Svartalf]

Uh...WTF? can you please explain what you mean there? because the Romans sure regulated their market fairly tightly, in particular concerning taxation and the sale of adulterated goods... honestly, it would have been preferable to be a revolted slave than a seller of bad corn (or bread made with adulterated flour) in Rome.

[Tero]

They are all law abiding citizens till they shoot someone, or a couple of dozen.

[Rum]

I love the idea of a personal arms race, don't you? People out gunning and out knifing all their neighbours and the potential bad guys until we get to what the USA and USSR had ..only personal - MAD! That was really sane wasn't it?

Free enterprise and an unregulated market would love it for fuck sake!

Talk about twattage..

Worked well for the Romans. Sad thing is that it really did work well for the Romans, and it lasted.

Not true. Romans had, until they end of its empire more or less overwhelming force on its side. They overran all opposition. (I know this as I have studied Rome serious like!) This is an very different scenario - we are talking about citizens leapfrogging bad guys in arms technology- as Seth would have it - in order to 'defend' themselves more effectively.

[andyx1205]

An American trying to educate Norway on the issue of guns? The former has one of the highest murder rates, the latter has one of the least.