Extremists feel no shame.Rum wrote:Seth makes me puke. 87 kids are dead and he makes it an opportunity to spew his libertarian bullshit. He should be ashamed of himself.
Oslo Blast Gun Derail
Re: Blast in Oslo
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Re: Blast in Oslo
Yes, well, luckily I've installed a Seth-filter in my head on these occasions, and all I see is "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah" when he sees an opportunity for his persona to do some pixel-prodding.
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Re: Blast in Oslo
So Seth, what do you think of my plan to send every Somali a hand gun? Then the poor could eventually wipe out the bad guys. They must outnumber them 100 to 1.Seth wrote:
And there were as many as 2.5 million people in the US who were NOT the victims of violent crime because they were armed. The same cannot be said for the UK.
The point being that claims that gun bans prevent gun crimes is specious and false. You can bandy statistics about all day, but for the 40 people who were murdered by firearms, who were all disarmed and rendered helpless by their government, and for the other thousands upon thousands who were victimized, injured and killed by criminals armed with OTHER deadly weapons like knives and bludgeons, the government's policy of prohibiting them from carrying effective defensive armament, even so much as OC spray or tear gas, is a very real violation of their individual right to life.
Re: Blast in Oslo
This news is miserable enough, but reading through this thread makes it worse for me. Seeing people like Seth, sandinista and Gawd chime in fills me with doubts and questions. Like, are Seth and Gawd really just Poes exagerrating an online persona for the sake of seeing the reactions they get, or are they really that loony in person? If it's the former, what is it about internet forums that facilitates this phenomenon with some people? And if it's the latter, why do people from the angry fringes of society feel such a need to jump into discussions when horrific tragedies like this happen? And why do they stick around forums like this month after month, knowing full well that the great majority of people have zero respect for what they have to say? Just because they like to say it, regardless of all the hate & discontent they spread? This forum is supposed to be a social place - I guess I'm just griping that we have some decidedly antisocial people here, and they won't leave.
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Re: Blast in Oslo
Nothing in the FUA about being a rotten person, is there?
Oslo Blast Gun Derail
You make me puke, with your cowardly denial of the truth. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting citizen disarmament, which certainly didn't help things. Eighty seven kids are dead because nobody except the killer had a gun, and that was the fault of the government and the people. Speaking truth hurts, doesn't it? All you can do is deny and attack the messenger. It's very sad that this happened, but that's no reason not to take the opportunity to point out that the anti-gun policies in most of Europe make such massacres all the more certain.Rum wrote:Seth makes me puke. 87 kids are dead and he makes it an opportunity to spew his libertarian bullshit. He should be ashamed of himself.
I'm sick and tired of people who whine and complain about such massacres and go right on advocating for gun bans. They are ignorant people who cannot comprehend simple facts of life, and they threaten MY life when those anti-gun policies begin creeping into MY country through the back door of the United Nations anti-gun initiatives.
I would have died defending those children with my pistol had I been there, just as I would have died defending the children at Columbine or any other innocent citizen who is being attacked when I'm around. That's why I carry a gun in the first place, and have done so for more than 25 years. I'm very sad that I wasn't there to help and that the children were killed, but my sadness is subsumed by my anger at those who facilitate such massacres by supporting anti-gun government policies because they are partly responsible for all those deaths.
That's what makes me really puke, because this will happen again, and again, and again, and again and the moronic idiots will go right on disarming the very people who might be able to put a stop to such horrendous acts.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Blast in Oslo
Personal attack reported.Ian wrote:This news is miserable enough, but reading through this thread makes it worse for me. Seeing people like Seth, sandinista and Gawd chime in fills me with doubts and questions. Like, are Seth and Gawd really just Poes exagerrating an online persona for the sake of seeing the reactions they get, or are they really that loony in person? If it's the former, what is it about internet forums that facilitates this phenomenon with some people? And if it's the latter, why do people from the angry fringes of society feel such a need to jump into discussions when horrific tragedies like this happen? And why do they stick around forums like this month after month, knowing full well that the great majority of people have zero respect for what they have to say? Just because they like to say it, regardless of all the hate & discontent they spread? This forum is supposed to be a social place - I guess I'm just griping that we have some decidedly antisocial people here, and they won't leave.
And yes, lefties who disarm their fellow citizens, leaving them at the mercy of deranged gunmen are decidedly anti-social. Defending the rights of individuals to be armed for self-defense is the very essence of being sociable however.
As to why I feel the need to contribute, it's because I am horrified at the event and I'm sad that I wasn't there to defend the kids and I'm angry at people who are too stupid to realize that disarming the very people who might have been able to stop the killing is an idiotic thing to do. Such people bear a portion of the responsibility for the incident because disarming law-abiding citizens not only increases the death toll, but actually invites these sorts of killers to plan carefully so they can attack "gun free zones."
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Blast in Oslo
I see no personal attack whatsoever. I see descriptives of behavior.
Re: Blast in Oslo
If the UK had gun laws like those in the USA there would not have been 40 people killed by firearms - there would have been hundreds, perhaps thousands, gunned down. The statistical argument is not bogus, it is absolutely key. 40 firearm deaths in a population of 60 million is incredibly low - translate that to the USA and you would have an annual death toll of 200 people - yes, 200 poor sods would be murdered, but would you prefer an "abstract social policy" that saves almost 10,000 lives or are you going to stick by your "right to decide". In 2006, three children were murdered with a firearm in Britain - in America the figure in 2007 was 1520 - that's 100 times more than the translated British figure.Seth wrote:And there were as many as 2.5 million people in the US who were NOT the victims of violent crime because they were armed. The same cannot be said for the UK.devogue wrote:And in 2009 there were 9,146 firearm homicides in the US. The UK population is about 20% of the USA's, so an "unsuccessful" firearm homicide rate would be about 1,800 - but there were only 40.Seth wrote:The UK was NOT successful. There were nearly 13000 firearms offenses in 2009/10 and 40 firearms homicides.
Hmmm.
The point being that claims that gun bans prevent gun crimes is specious and false. You can bandy statistics about all day, but for the 40 people who were murdered by firearms, who were all disarmed and rendered helpless by their government, and for the other thousands upon thousands who were victimized, injured and killed by criminals armed with OTHER deadly weapons like knives and bludgeons, the government's policy of prohibiting them from carrying effective defensive armament, even so much as OC spray or tear gas, is a very real violation of their individual right to life.
The statistical argument is a bogus one because it reduces those who are killed and victimized to the status of numbers and it fails to acknowledge their individual right to decide for themselves what level of self-defense armament is necessary or desirable.
And the right of the individual to effectively defend himself against violent crime is absolute, and may not morally be interfered with by anyone, including government. To do so is one of the worst acts of tyranny imaginable, and is right up there with government-sponsored genocide. Any government that does so is illegitimate and needs to be taken down and replaced with one that honors and respects the rights of the individual over abstract social policy.
Imagine if a particular type of criminal decided that using a pet lion to attack victims was a good idea - what do you do? Ban private ownership of lions or advocate that every fucker can keep a pet lion to act as a deterrent?
Re: Blast in Oslo
We should be air-dropping pallets of AK-47's and ammunition to every village and hut in Somalia, so that the good people of that country will have sufficient arms to put down the tyrants who currently are starving them to death.Tero wrote:So Seth, what do you think of my plan to send every Somali a hand gun? Then the poor could eventually wipe out the bad guys. They must outnumber them 100 to 1.Seth wrote:
And there were as many as 2.5 million people in the US who were NOT the victims of violent crime because they were armed. The same cannot be said for the UK.
The point being that claims that gun bans prevent gun crimes is specious and false. You can bandy statistics about all day, but for the 40 people who were murdered by firearms, who were all disarmed and rendered helpless by their government, and for the other thousands upon thousands who were victimized, injured and killed by criminals armed with OTHER deadly weapons like knives and bludgeons, the government's policy of prohibiting them from carrying effective defensive armament, even so much as OC spray or tear gas, is a very real violation of their individual right to life.
In France, during WWII, we dropped hundreds of thousands of single-shot "Liberty pistols" to the French people, who used them to kill German soldiers and take their weapons so they could resist the Nazis.
The problem with genocide is never that there are too many guns, it's that there are not enough guns in the hands of the victims, leaving them defenseless. This is absolutely true in Somalia.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Blast in Oslo
You wouldn't, but it's clearly a personal attack. If I call you an antisocial fuckwit, I think you'd agree that it's a personal attack, right?Ian wrote:I see no personal attack whatsoever. I see descriptives of behavior.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
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Re: Blast in Oslo
We are descending into the absurd here.
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Re: Blast in Oslo
If it wasn't true, of course.Seth wrote:You wouldn't, but it's clearly a personal attack. If I call you an antisocial fuckwit, I think you'd agree that it's a personal attack, right?Ian wrote:I see no personal attack whatsoever. I see descriptives of behavior.
Re: Blast in Oslo
The fuckwit part would be. Opining that we have antisocial people here, and that what you've said about this subject and about others who have responded to you constitutes such behavior, is not - it's a descrition of behavior. It's no more a personal attack than saying Gawd is anti-Semitic.Seth wrote:You wouldn't, but it's clearly a personal attack. If I call you an antisocial fuckwit, I think you'd agree that it's a personal attack, right?Ian wrote:I see no personal attack whatsoever. I see descriptives of behavior.
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Re: Blast in Oslo
Arm the people; make the rulers our servants, like they only pretend to be now.
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