Blast in Oslo

[Cunt]

Holy fuck. Could you Norwegians give each other a hug for us?

[Robert_S]

Holy fuck. Could you Norwegians give each other a hug for us?

...and another.

[borealis]

There're no words for insanity like this...

I'm glad they caught the fucker alive.

[JimC]

This is almost enough to make me wonder whether some of our US posters might be right...

If there was an "armed citizen" or two around, maybe they could have got the arsehole and reduced the death toll...

[Eriku]

This is almost enough to make me wonder whether some of our US posters might be right...

If there was an "armed citizen" or two around, maybe they could have got the arsehole and reduced the death toll...

Firstly, I reckon it would be completely inappropriate to be armed at a youth summer camp. Secondly, having a weapon and knowing how to use it doesn't necessarily translate to him sorting this one out. The man was wearing kevlar and had a machine gun and several handguns, according to reports. Thirdly, we know plenty about guns being subject to tragic incidents in the home and whatnot, due to stupid or just plain tragic incidents, involving children, booze and whatever else that might trigger senseless play with or use of guns.

An incident like this alone should not be enough to abandon our general approach in this matter. Doing a quick search I find a Guardian article from 09 stating that per 100,000 citizens in Norway we have 0.8 murders a year. The US, on the same list, has 5.9. Of course a shitload of things enter into that sort of thing, and we are a small country, but suggesting that another few guns would've sorted this situation out and would be advisable in order to make Norway safer in general is definitely not a suggestion that I would embrace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... urder-data

edit: I have to add that I'm proud of how Norway seems to be coping. People seem to have been taking responsibility in saving themselves and others, locals came with boats to help pick people up from the waters, none of our significant news outlets have jumped at and embraced the terrorist angle with certain, and our Prime minister and others have championed our approach to politics and diversity, and has insisted that his intent to have us fearing our present should be foiled by our reluctance to give in to cheap and tawdry attacks on unsuspecting civilians. I've harboured many fears about the general tone in this country, our media and how we handled things like the Muhammed cartoons, but in this significant and visceral incident we've refused to be reactionary.

[JimC]

This is almost enough to make me wonder whether some of our US posters might be right...

If there was an "armed citizen" or two around, maybe they could have got the arsehole and reduced the death toll...

Firstly, I reckon it would be completely inappropriate to be armed at a youth summer camp. Secondly, having a weapon and knowing how to use it doesn't necessarily translate to him sorting this one out. The man was wearing kevlar and had a machine gun and several handguns, according to reports. Thirdly, we know plenty about guns being subject to tragic incidents in the home and whatnot, due to stupid or just plain tragic incidents, involving children, booze and whatever else that might trigger senseless play with or use of guns.

An incident like this alone should not be enough to abandon our general approach in this matter. Doing a quick search I find a Guardian article from 09 stating that per 100,000 citizens in Norway we have 0.8 murders a year. The US, on the same list, has 5.9. Of course a shitload of things enter into that sort of thing, and we are a small country, but suggesting that another few guns would've sorted this situation out and would be advisable in order to make Norway safer in general is definitely not a suggestion that I would embrace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... urder-data

You're probably right - I am really embracing a fantasy of a lone "Tom Clancy" style hero who cooly shoots him in the eye from 50 paces...

The overall reality is that the less guns, the better...

It will be important for an inquiry to find where he got all his damned military stuff...

[Eriku]

This is almost enough to make me wonder whether some of our US posters might be right...

If there was an "armed citizen" or two around, maybe they could have got the arsehole and reduced the death toll...

Firstly, I reckon it would be completely inappropriate to be armed at a youth summer camp. Secondly, having a weapon and knowing how to use it doesn't necessarily translate to him sorting this one out. The man was wearing kevlar and had a machine gun and several handguns, according to reports. Thirdly, we know plenty about guns being subject to tragic incidents in the home and whatnot, due to stupid or just plain tragic incidents, involving children, booze and whatever else that might trigger senseless play with or use of guns.

An incident like this alone should not be enough to abandon our general approach in this matter. Doing a quick search I find a Guardian article from 09 stating that per 100,000 citizens in Norway we have 0.8 murders a year. The US, on the same list, has 5.9. Of course a shitload of things enter into that sort of thing, and we are a small country, but suggesting that another few guns would've sorted this situation out and would be advisable in order to make Norway safer in general is definitely not a suggestion that I would embrace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... urder-data

You're probably right - I am really embracing a fantasy of a lone "Tom Clancy" style hero who cooly shoots him in the eye from 50 paces...

The overall reality is that the less guns, the better...

It will be important for an inquiry to find where he got all his damned military stuff...

I wouldn't have minded the odd wannabe hero pulling his gun and ending this far earlier than it did, even if I principally would prefer a completely disarmed Norway, but it's good for the justice aspect and the explanative aspect that he's been apprehended alive. I'm personally most curious as to how he defends his actions, whether it was deliberately targeting the Labour Party and what issues tipped him over the edge.

[MiM]

There're no words for insanity like this...

I'm glad they caught the fucker alive.

to the Norwegians, and anyone else in need of one. This was far to close for comfort already for me.

And, no. I don't think more guns is the answer.

[Atheist-Lite]

What I find sad is that there is likely to be a 'fear of strangers' effect and people unknown to the situation directly are likely to move towards a right wing religious position - that through the easily overlooked power dynamics this 'mission of callous brutality' will succeeed in some sense.

[Eriku]

Utøya number of casualties adjusted to 84... that's 91 in total, now.

And have faith, Crumple... what I've seen in terms of reactions thus far have given me a positive view on where we stand as a society currently. We're steadfast in our desire to remain an open and flexible society, and I don't think we'll succumb to anything like fear tactics.

[Cormac]

Fucking christians fundies. The pull of fascism is always bubbling beneath the surface.

That he is a racial supremacist christian fundie is a sick joke. His god was a middle eastern brown-eyed dark-skinned fellow. (If he existed as a person). Almost as far from blue-eyed aryan as one can get.

What a cunt.

[Rum]

Thinking of you and Normal and the parents of those 85 or so kids. What an awful awful thing.

If there's a country that will grow only stronger as a result of a nightmare like this it is Norway.

[Robert_S]

I want to post a whole page on this, but I cannot really even think of anything to say besides I'd like to give Norway a big hug and somehow make it better, but I doubt it would really do much good.

[normal]

[klr]

This is almost enough to make me wonder whether some of our US posters might be right...

If there was an "armed citizen" or two around, maybe they could have got the arsehole and reduced the death toll...

Firstly, I reckon it would be completely inappropriate to be armed at a youth summer camp. Secondly, having a weapon and knowing how to use it doesn't necessarily translate to him sorting this one out. The man was wearing kevlar and had a machine gun and several handguns, according to reports. Thirdly, we know plenty about guns being subject to tragic incidents in the home and whatnot, due to stupid or just plain tragic incidents, involving children, booze and whatever else that might trigger senseless play with or use of guns.
...

One change I can foresee though: I guess it's going to be mandatory in the future for any such gathering to be accompanied by a some armed guards - and I stress the plural, to guard against the possibility that one of the them may themselves be a crackpot. On a more mundane level, it's unlikely that such isolated venues will be used again. Clearly, the perpetrator picked this camp so as to kill as many people as possible. That and the fact that it was a "political" meeting.

A sad, sad day.