WTF's going on in Nornirland?

[Rum]

They have their assembly, terrorists in charge of the government just like they wanted, Ian Paisley parked out of the way and yet the twats are still trying to kill each other!

Cut them adrift and push the lot of them out into the Atlantic I say.

Eeejuts!

[JimC]

The lingering poison of religion is still causing the body politic to fester...

[Geoff]

Well, it's only 400+ years since the Boyne, still fresh in their memories...

[mistermack]

It's the fuckin churches.
They bang on about how they want peace, but simply will not countenance changing to mixed-religion schools.
Their own selfish interests rank more highly than peace.

Two faced fuckers.
.

[Cormac]

On one side, they're welded to an organisation that is inherently sectarion - the Orange Order and the like.

On the other, they won't let go of sectarian education.

Then, you've a bunch of criminals wrapping themselves in respective flags, and a generation of kids who have a massive sense of entitlement, and no experience of the horrors of the troubles...

Idiocy.

[Lozzer]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

[Geoff]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

Bollocks. How would you feel if one of your pride marches was told it mustn't go near a Muslim area for fear of upsetting them?

[JimC]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

Bollocks. How would you feel if one of your pride marches was told it mustn't go near a Muslim area for fear of upsetting them?

Bit of a difference. With some militant exceptions perhaps, a gay pride march is not about deliberately taunting an old tribal foe, to the point of hoping to provoke violence, or at least to demonstrate power over a vanquished enemy...

[Geoff]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

Bollocks. How would you feel if one of your pride marches was told it mustn't go near a Muslim area for fear of upsetting them?

Bit of a difference. With some militant exceptions perhaps, a gay pride march is not about deliberately taunting an old tribal foe, to the point of hoping to provoke violence, or at least to demonstrate power over a vanquished enemy...

To some extent, yes, but it's the same route they've been using for 200 years, long before those areas were settled by the Catholics. In any case, IMO, a peaceful march should be allowed to go anywhere, regardless of any perceived "provocation" it might cause (and I'm not taking sides, BTW, I'd argue exactly the same for the rights of a Nationalist parade).

[Cormac]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

Bollocks. How would you feel if one of your pride marches was told it mustn't go near a Muslim area for fear of upsetting them?

Orange marches ARE about declaring dominance (although, it is historically seriously inaccurate), and about expressing superiority over the Catholic/Nationalist population. They are, despite Orange Order protestations to the contrary, statements of hatred. (Which flavour of bigotry came first?)

On the other hand - Nationalists are only playing into the hands of the Orangemen by reacting. And the Nationalist side has its own fair share of those working to nurture and breed hatred (the Catholic Church's control over education, dissident "republicans", etc.)

[Cormac]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

Bollocks. How would you feel if one of your pride marches was told it mustn't go near a Muslim area for fear of upsetting them?

Bit of a difference. With some militant exceptions perhaps, a gay pride march is not about deliberately taunting an old tribal foe, to the point of hoping to provoke violence, or at least to demonstrate power over a vanquished enemy...

To some extent, yes, but it's the same route they've been using for 200 years, long before those areas were settled by the Catholics. In any case, IMO, a peaceful march should be allowed to go anywhere, regardless of any perceived "provocation" it might cause (and I'm not taking sides, BTW, I'd argue exactly the same for the rights of a Nationalist parade).

The point about everything that has happened this summer is that there are assholes on each side determined to drag the North back to the dark days of the Troubles. Agent Provocateurs are at work on both sides, attempting to escalate the trouble, and inflame passions on both sides. It is working because:

1. This generation has a massive sense of entitlement.
2. Despite the fact that even the poorest in NI have much better social supports and facilities than their peers anywhere else in the UK or Ireland, they still think they're deprived
3. They blame each other for their (non-existent) deprivation
4. They have been brought up in an environment in which blame and hatred of the other is nurtured.
5. They lionise armed action in defence of their "community".
6. Being a "staunch defender" or "armed revolutionary" is a great cover for drug-dealing and other criminal activities.
7. Establishing control over an area is best done through flexing muscle, and demonstrating control over the youth

[Rum]

I think we should leave them to it. Let the twats kill each other. They are so full of hate I hate them.

[Svartalf]

Well, it's only 400+ years since the Boyne, still fresh in their memories...

Ya bet... it's still French in mine, even though family history has even forgotten the name of the Irishman who took our name as he married my ancestress.

[Svartalf]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

Bollocks. How would you feel if one of your pride marches was told it mustn't go near a Muslim area for fear of upsetting them?

a) it should feel safer if the muslims are known to be violently aggressive$
b) If the parade is an actual threat to public order, the authorities have not only the power, but the duty to restrict the itinerary to places where it won't cause riots.

[Svartalf]

Maybe if the NI authorities restricted the movements of the Orange-men parade from Catholic and republican areas, riots simply wouldn't kick off. They know it's patronising, and they know it triggers tensions to escalate: but they persist, and people get hurt because of pure inevitability. The media uses it as an excuse to say 'hey, look, the republicans are kicking off again', meanwhile a bunch of stuck-up, bowler-hatted unionists march the streets celebrating the defeat and death of thousands of Catholics. The violent response should be considered second to repulsive, anachronistic conceit of the Twelfth celebrations.

Bollocks. How would you feel if one of your pride marches was told it mustn't go near a Muslim area for fear of upsetting them?

Bit of a difference. With some militant exceptions perhaps, a gay pride march is not about deliberately taunting an old tribal foe, to the point of hoping to provoke violence, or at least to demonstrate power over a vanquished enemy...

To some extent, yes, but it's the same route they've been using for 200 years, long before those areas were settled by the Catholics. In any case, IMO, a peaceful march should be allowed to go anywhere, regardless of any perceived "provocation" it might cause (and I'm not taking sides, BTW, I'd argue exactly the same for the rights of a Nationalist parade).

except that an orangemen parade is anything BUT a peaceful march.

and I don't know if you're right about the itinerary being traditional and concentration of Catholics along parts of it a recent development; those Catholics likely didn't choose to be there (being the poor and the disenfranchised, they don't have that luxury), so it behooves to the victor to be gracious rather than insist on exciting resentment and anger over the crimes their ancestors committed and the fruits of which they are still reaping.