Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Robert_S » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:41 pm

Seth wrote:
Robert_S wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Robert_S wrote:If the capitalists would treat the average worker better, then socialist and communist wouldn't get any further than small meetings on college campuses.
That's patently not true. In the wealthiest countries of the world, we still get communist agitation and much of it comes from well-to-do folks who haven't been abused by any "capitalists" in their lives.
Hoy far does this get? Do they overthrow the government and lynch the bankers? Or are they just co-opted into more more center left movements? The last socialist meeting I went to was just some 15 - 20 kids; not a calloused hand in the room.
Yup, dilettante pseudo-intellectual college students who don't understand the value of self-ownership and hard work because they've been given virtually everything they've ever had and they are mad at mommy and daddy for demanding that they actually apply them selves in school rather than allowing them to party and smoke pot. Such mindlessness is very susceptible to the propaganda of Marxism.
The ones I've come in contact with were rather studious and probably destined for decent enough jobs. Kids who want to party their college years away generally do so without making much of a fuss about politics or showing up at lectures.

No, for these kids (they took notes and everything) it seemed to come down to having a sense of social justice. I attended the first lecture to listen to a woman give a talk about the invasions of privacy and other violations of civil liberties during the abortion prohibition days. It was an enlightening presentation, but did not have much in the way of economic theory. I went back a few more times, but got bored by the high density of overly doctrine infused viewpoints.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Pensioner » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:51 pm

Seth wrote:Die a painful and lingering death, Chavez.

Death to Tyrants!
Fuck off you arsole, you are nothing more that a fucking scum bag. I agree with this quote however "Death to Tyrants", Like you and your slack jawed friends who play banjos on a bridge. Cunt.
“I wish no harm to any human being, but I, as one man, am going to exercise my freedom of speech. No human being on the face of the earth, no government is going to take from me my right to speak, my right to protest against wrong, my right to do everything that is for the benefit of mankind. I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.”

John Maclean (Scottish socialist) speech from the Dock 1918.

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Lozzer » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:53 pm

Pensioner wrote:
Seth wrote:Die a painful and lingering death, Chavez.

Death to Tyrants!
Fuck off you arsole, you are nothing more that a fucking scum bag. I agree with this quote however "Death to Tyrants", Like you and your slack jawed friends who play banjos on a bridge. Cunt.
:{D
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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Rum » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:53 pm

Pensioner wrote:
Seth wrote:Die a painful and lingering death, Chavez.

Death to Tyrants!
Fuck off you arsole, you are nothing more that a fucking scum bag. I agree with this quote however "Death to Tyrants", Like you and your slack jawed friends who play banjos on a bridge. Cunt.
:funny:

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Cormac » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:54 pm

Robert_S wrote:
Seth wrote:
Robert_S wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Robert_S wrote:If the capitalists would treat the average worker better, then socialist and communist wouldn't get any further than small meetings on college campuses.
That's patently not true. In the wealthiest countries of the world, we still get communist agitation and much of it comes from well-to-do folks who haven't been abused by any "capitalists" in their lives.
Hoy far does this get? Do they overthrow the government and lynch the bankers? Or are they just co-opted into more more center left movements? The last socialist meeting I went to was just some 15 - 20 kids; not a calloused hand in the room.
Yup, dilettante pseudo-intellectual college students who don't understand the value of self-ownership and hard work because they've been given virtually everything they've ever had and they are mad at mommy and daddy for demanding that they actually apply them selves in school rather than allowing them to party and smoke pot. Such mindlessness is very susceptible to the propaganda of Marxism.
The ones I've come in contact with were rather studious and probably destined for decent enough jobs. Kids who want to party their college years away generally do so without making much of a fuss about politics or showing up at lectures.

No, for these kids (they took notes and everything) it seemed to come down to having a sense of social justice. I attended the first lecture to listen to a woman give a talk about the invasions of privacy and other violations of civil liberties during the abortion prohibition days. It was an enlightening presentation, but did not have much in the way of economic theory. I went back a few more times, but got bored by the high density of overly doctrine infused viewpoints.
What they suffer from is the delusion that there is "one big shining answer" and a complete denial of the facts regarding human motivation.

For example, I'm not going to break myself working huge hours, take on massive legal risk, and sacrifice time with my family, only to have all additional earnings taken away in tax. In that scenario, I'll take a job paying the average wage. Yet, they continue to think that you can heap tax on tax onto those earning more, and still have them coninue to work. (There is a theory from economics on this - isn't there always).

They also seem to deny that management and entrepreneurialism are skills in their own right. This is often accompanied by the claim that the wealth is created by the workers, and therefore workers should own the company. Fine, let the workers go get the finance and set the company up - then they become the entrepreneurs and managers. Who do they think starts the companies in the first instance?
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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Cormac » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Pensioner wrote:
Seth wrote:Die a painful and lingering death, Chavez.

Death to Tyrants!
Fuck off you arsole, you are nothing more that a fucking scum bag. I agree with this quote however "Death to Tyrants", Like you and your slack jawed friends who play banjos on a bridge. Cunt.
Cheer up Pen!

I have met and worked with a very high profile "Socialist" politician from South America. Don't be under any illusion. These guys drape themselves in the plough and stars, but they are utterly selfish, utterly self-aggrandising, and all about power.

Chavez has dismantled many of the institutional limits preventing autocracy, and centralising that on himself.

He looks like, walks like, and sounds like a dictator.

My suspicions are that he is a dictator.
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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Pensioner » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:18 pm

I think Seth is a bigger Dick taker than the other guy, you know what these religious nut jobs are like.
“I wish no harm to any human being, but I, as one man, am going to exercise my freedom of speech. No human being on the face of the earth, no government is going to take from me my right to speak, my right to protest against wrong, my right to do everything that is for the benefit of mankind. I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.”

John Maclean (Scottish socialist) speech from the Dock 1918.

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Rum » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:19 pm

Politics is dirty - no where more so in places like Latin America. Chavez no doubt did despicable things in his climb to power but at least his actions would appear to be aimed at making the lot of ordinary people better, unlike, for example Pinochet, who was the puppet dictator of Chile at the behest of the USA, his strings pulled regularly by the CIA.

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Atheist-Lite » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:34 pm

Rum wrote:
Pensioner wrote:
Seth wrote:Die a painful and lingering death, Chavez.

Death to Tyrants!
Fuck off you arsole, you are nothing more that a fucking scum bag. I agree with this quote however "Death to Tyrants", Like you and your slack jawed friends who play banjos on a bridge. Cunt.
:funny:

The elderly have nothing to lose...
You been radicalised Rum? :smoke:
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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Orwellian » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:41 pm

Rum wrote:...but at least his actions would appear to be aimed at making the lot of ordinary people better....
Evidence? Other than his word...?
To the future or to the past, to a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone — to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: From the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink — greetings!

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Orwellian » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:43 pm

Pensioner wrote:
Seth wrote:Die a painful and lingering death, Chavez.

Death to Tyrants!
Fuck off you arsole, you are nothing more that a fucking scum bag. I agree with this quote however "Death to Tyrants", Like you and your slack jawed friends who play banjos on a bridge. Cunt.
Ouch. Nasty comment.
To the future or to the past, to a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone — to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: From the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink — greetings!

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Rum » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:51 pm

Orwellian wrote:
Rum wrote:...but at least his actions would appear to be aimed at making the lot of ordinary people better....
Evidence? Other than his word...?
I can but point you to Wiki..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_p ... government

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Pensioner » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:52 pm

Orwellian wrote:
Pensioner wrote:
Seth wrote:Die a painful and lingering death, Chavez.

Death to Tyrants!
Fuck off you arsole, you are nothing more that a fucking scum bag. I agree with this quote however "Death to Tyrants", Like you and your slack jawed friends who play banjos on a bridge. Cunt.
Ouch. Nasty comment.
:fall: :tut: :biggrin:
“I wish no harm to any human being, but I, as one man, am going to exercise my freedom of speech. No human being on the face of the earth, no government is going to take from me my right to speak, my right to protest against wrong, my right to do everything that is for the benefit of mankind. I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.”

John Maclean (Scottish socialist) speech from the Dock 1918.

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Orwellian » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:54 pm

Neither official statistics nor independent estimates show any evidence that Chávez has reoriented state priorities to benefit the poor. Most health and human development indicators have shown no significant improvement beyond that which is normal in the midst of an oil boom. Indeed, some have deteriorated worryingly, and official estimates indicate that income inequality has increased. The "Chávez is good for the poor" hypothesis is inconsistent with the facts.
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... revolution

And, regarding nasty comments, I read the rules and I thought that kind of thing was frowned upon.

Image

Chávez's government has not done any more to fight poverty than past Venezuelan governments, and his much-heralded social programs have had little effect. A close look at the evidence reveals just how much Chávez's "revolution" has hurt Venezuela's economy -- and that the poor are hurting most of all.
To the future or to the past, to a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone — to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: From the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink — greetings!

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Re: Hugo Chavez has prostate cancer

Post by Atheist-Lite » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:06 pm

Orwellian wrote:
Neither official statistics nor independent estimates show any evidence that Chávez has reoriented state priorities to benefit the poor. Most health and human development indicators have shown no significant improvement beyond that which is normal in the midst of an oil boom. Indeed, some have deteriorated worryingly, and official estimates indicate that income inequality has increased. The "Chávez is good for the poor" hypothesis is inconsistent with the facts.
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... revolution

And, regarding nasty comments, I read the rules and I thought that kind of thing was frowned upon.

Image

Chávez's government has not done any more to fight poverty than past Venezuelan governments, and his much-heralded social programs have had little effect. A close look at the evidence reveals just how much Chávez's "revolution" has hurt Venezuela's economy -- and that the poor are hurting most of all.
It's obvious a overstuffed clown like Chavez isn't for the poor. He's a champaigne socialist South American style. If he really represented the poor he'd have been thrown in a live volcano years ago. The CIA do occasionally try to overthrow him but are defeated by meeting one of their own. :roll:
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