Energy is matter...

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Tero
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Energy is matter...

Post by Tero » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:24 am

...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years.

Let's back up a bit. Chemistry lesson.

On these message boards, we are all a bit too Einsteinian. Matter is energy. Matter is just empty space. Those are the ideas being thrown around. Besides the Goldylocks "just right" universe where God created all the physics parameters to be just right.

No. None of that. We live on a planet where most of the atoms are fixed. Carbons remain carbons. All the carbon containing molecules in you are made of carbons that were once part of plants and animals. And once were CO2.

Atoms have mass. They may be "empty" inside, but you can't squash two atoms together any more than you can squash two baseballs, other than a tiny dent at the surface. So much for empty inside.

Molecules have fixed structure. Your DNA contains deoxyribose. All the bonds of those ribose sugars are fixed, pretty much as long as you live. Or till they are repaired. The nucleic acid base part has heterocycles. Sometimes they degrade, but there are repair enzymes that fix them.

All the energy we normally deal with (not nuclear) comes from chemical reactions. Reactions give off heat, but the ATOMS ARE NEVER DESTROYED, only the bonds are broken. ATP breaks down to ADP and phosphate. Photosynthesis uses sun light as an energy source, but it is still a chemical, not a nuclear reaction.

All this is very real to me. And I can measure it.

Mind and matter, you can argue about which is real forever. I am just going to assume matter is. Life is easier that way. I have faith in my molecules.

(It was just a cut and paste from a blog, I dug it up from 3 years back. Don't even remember what forum I posted it in.)

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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:33 am

All very true... here. Things are a little more fluid in stars and other hot-spots. But we don't live in stars, so treating matter as pretty much immutable is a fair approximation. :tup:
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by Atheist-Lite » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:29 am

You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull. :science:
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by FBM » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:41 am

Crumple wrote:You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull. :science:
You seem very certain of this. ;)
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:46 am

FBM wrote:
Crumple wrote:You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull. :science:
You seem very certain of this. ;)
You will be too - come the dollar-collapse! :lay:
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
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Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by Atheist-Lite » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:51 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
FBM wrote:
Crumple wrote:You only percieve this through your neuronal net and have no idea about reality outside the human skull. :science:
You seem very certain of this. ;)
You will be too - come the dollar-collapse! :lay:
Money isn't nothing but desire mixed with hope and regret. That's a terrible thing to do yourself - suicide by money. :smoke:
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by FBM » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:54 am

My pay is in KRW. :coffee:
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by FBM » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:25 am

Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...
If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from... :eddy:
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by JimC » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:14 am

FBM wrote:
Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...
If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from... :eddy:
The atoms are, but their constituent bits, mainly in the form of protons and electrons (and bound neutrons) are just indulging in an orgy of partner swapping, without themselves being made new at all. The mass defect that allows energy release in fusion events is a cosmic sleight of hand, involving the binding energy within a nucleus...
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by Atheist-Lite » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:19 am

JimC wrote:
FBM wrote:
Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...
If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from... :eddy:
The atoms are, but their constituent bits, mainly in the form of protons and electrons (and bound neutrons) are just indulging in an orgy of partner swapping, without themselves being made new at all. The mass defect that allows energy release in fusion events is a cosmic sleight of hand, involving the binding energy within a nucleus...
Nothing is made or destroyed. Things appear new by re-arrangement. :smoke:
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by FBM » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:24 am

JimC wrote:
FBM wrote:
Tero wrote:...or not. Most atoms are happy to stay as the same element for billions of years...
If you consider only terrestrial matter and only in the human time span, OK. But most of the matter in the universe is in the form of stars, where atoms are being made anew all the time, eh? That's where the stuff that we are came from... :eddy:
The atoms are, but their constituent bits, mainly in the form of protons and electrons (and bound neutrons) are just indulging in an orgy of partner swapping, without themselves being made new at all. The mass defect that allows energy release in fusion events is a cosmic sleight of hand, involving the binding energy within a nucleus...
At the temperature of a star, yes, probably, but not so much from neutron stars, singularities and the like, where itsy bits get squished hard enough to combine with other itsy bits. And then there is virutual particle creation from vacuum energy, but that's just splitting hairs, really.

As XC said, "But we don't live in stars, so treating matter as pretty much immutable is a fair approximation."
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by mistermack » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:51 am

I thought it was the other way around. Matter is energy.
Just because it gets stuck in a repetitive cycle, (matter) it doesn't stop being energy imho.
And there is an awful lot of dark energy out there. And apparently an anti-particle for every particle, which can return all matter to free energy.
And a lot of black holes which are cracking matter back into energy.
So just because a lot of energy is fixed in matter now, it could be unfixed in as little as 20 billion years.
Or not.
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Re: Energy is matter...

Post by Tero » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:32 pm

Well, sure there is cool stuff going on in the solar system even, but these people jump from no knowledge to the famous equation in one step. The cool stuff, positrons and all:

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