The US Space Program

[mistermack]

I've argued before, and am happy to repeat it, that the Moon will be infinitely more useful than Mars ( if there is useful quantities of water there ).

I think that the real future of Man in space is in huge rotating space stations, which can provide artificial gravity. For that, you need materials, and rocket fuels.
Materials to build and manufacture, and propellants to move things about.

Mars isn't going to be much use, as you would need a lot of materials and fuels to take off from Mars, and to carry materials to a station. Also, it's so far from Earth, if people get sick, they would be dead before you could get them to an Earth hospital.

The Moon is an ideal source of materials. It's gravity is low, so you can lift off without expending much energy, and it's close to the Earth, so people could be returned quickly in an emergency.

So I say that we should concentrate on the moon, and improve our space-station expertise, so that we can get to the point that we can build and manufacture in space, with materials gathered from the moon.

If you can make a much bigger space station, that can spin and provide artificial gravity, you are truly on your way.

Mars won't become useful till much later.
.

[Coito ergo sum]

I've argued before, and am happy to repeat it, that the Moon will be infinitely more useful than Mars ( if there is useful quantities of water there ).

In my opinion in the nearer term, you are correct. It would take vastly more effort to make use of Mars, and the Moon is a necessary first step, IMHO. Our present administration, however, thinks otherwise, and killed the American Moon program and announced a pie-in-the-sky "manned mission to an asteroid" about 14 months ago, and we haven't heard much of anything since. The asteroid mission is supposed to be followed by a manned Mars mission in the 2030s or something, but, nothing has been announced on that one.

Frankly, the idea of sending manned missions to asteroids entailing 6 months in space at a time when it's been almost 4 decades since men walked on the Moon, and we've never done even Moon missions of anywhere close to 6 months, seems to me to be borderline folly. The risks and unknowns are tremendous. We ought to learn how to head back and forth to the Moon, and do stuff there, for long periods of time first. Then start venturing out. But, then again, I'm cynical on that issue and I think his announcement was a very skilful way to kick the can down the road without anyone being able to accuse him of killing the space program. He didn't kill it, says he, he actually proposed an even grander program....one that will never happen....

I think that the real future of Man in space is in huge rotating space stations, which can provide artificial gravity. For that, you need materials, and rocket fuels.
Materials to build and manufacture, and propellants to move things about.

Mars isn't going to be much use, as you would need a lot of materials and fuels to take off from Mars, and to carry materials to a station. Also, it's so far from Earth, if people get sick, they would be dead before you could get them to an Earth hospital.

The Moon is an ideal source of materials. It's gravity is low, so you can lift off without expending much energy, and it's close to the Earth, so people could be returned quickly in an emergency.

So I say that we should concentrate on the moon, and improve our space-station expertise, so that we can get to the point that we can build and manufacture in space, with materials gathered from the moon.

If you can make a much bigger space station, that can spin and provide artificial gravity, you are truly on your way.

Mars won't become useful till much later.
.

Agreed 100%.

[mistermack]

I can't see any value at all in going to an asteroid. Unless it was mostly water, and small enough to push into an Earth orbit. And the chances of that must be close to zero.

The moon is a no-brainer. It's not going to disappear into the deepest depths of the solar system, and it's beginning to look like there IS a lot of water up there.
.

[Coito ergo sum]

“The bottom line is, nobody is more committed to manned spaceflight, to human exploration of space than I am,” - B. Obama (April, 2010).



http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_s ... olicy.html

Dear President Obama;

America is faced with the near-simultaneous ending of the Shuttle program and your recent budget proposal to cancel the Constellation program. This is wrong for our country for many reasons. We are very concerned about America ceding its hard earned global leadership in space technology to other nations. We are stunned that, in a time of economic crisis, this move will force as many as 30,000 irreplaceable engineers and managers out of the space industry. We see our human exploration program, one of the most inspirational tools to promote science, technology, engineering and math to our young people, being reduced to mediocrity. NASA’s human space program has inspired awe and wonder in all ages by pursuing the American tradition of exploring the unknown. We strongly urge you to drop this misguided proposal that forces NASA out of human space operations for the foreseeable future.

For those of us who have accepted the risk and dedicated a portion of our lives to the exploration of outer space, this is a terrible decision. Our experiences were made possible by the efforts of thousands who were similarly dedicated to the exploration of the last frontier. Success in this great national adventure was predicated on well defined programs, an unwavering national commitment, and an ambitious challenge. We understand there are risks involved in human space flight, but they are calculated risks for worthy goals, whose benefits greatly exceed those risks.

America’s greatness lies in her people: she will always have men and women willing to ride rockets into the heavens. America’s challenge is to match their bravery and acceptance of risk with specific plans and goals worthy of their commitment. NASA must continue at the frontiers of human space exploration in order to develop the technology and set the standards of excellence that will enable commercial space ventures to eventually succeed. Canceling NASA’s human space operations, after 50 years of unparalleled achievement, makes that objective impossible.

One of the greatest fears of any generation is not leaving things better for the young people of the next. In the area of human space flight, we are about to realize that fear; your NASA budget proposal raises more questions about our future in space than it answers.

Too many men and women have worked too hard and sacrificed too much to achieve America’s preeminence in space, only to see that effort needlessly thrown away. We urge you to demonstrate the vision and determination necessary to keep our nation at the forefront of human space exploration with ambitious goals and the proper resources to see them through. This is not the time to abandon the promise of the space frontier for a lack of will or an unwillingness to pay the price.

Sincerely, in hopes of continued American leadership in human space exploration.

Walter Cunningham
Apollo 7

Chris Kraft
Past Director JSC

Jack Lousma
Skylab 3, STS 3

Vance Brand
Apollo-Soyuz, STS-5,
STS-41B, STS-35

Bob Crippen
STS-1, STS-7,
STS-41C, STS-41G
Past Director KSC

Michael D. Griffin
Past NASA Administrator

Ed Gibson
Skylab 4

Jim Kennedy
Past Director KSC

Alan Bean
Apollo 12, Skylab 3

Alfred M. Worden
Apollo 15

Scott Carpenter
Mercury Astronaut

Glynn Lunney
Gemini-Apollo Flight Director

Jim McDivitt
Gemini 4, Apollo 9
Apollo Spacecraft Program Manager

Gene Kranz
Gemini-Apollo Flight Director
Past Director NASA Mission Ops.

Joe Kerwin
Skylab 2

Fred Haise
Apollo 13,
Shuttle Landing Tests

Gerald Carr
Skylab 4

Jim Lovell
Gemini 7, Gemini 12,
Apollo 8, Apollo 13

Jake Garn
STS-51D,
U.S. Senator

Charlie Duke
Apollo 16

Bruce McCandless
STS-41B, STS-31

Frank Borman
Gemini 7, Apollo 8

Paul Weitz
Skylab 2, STS-6

George Mueller
Past Associate Administrator
For Manned Space Flight

Harrison Schmitt
Apollo 17,
U.S. Senator

Gene Cernan
Gemini 9, Apollo 10,
Apollo 17

Dick Gordon
Gemini 11, Apollo 12

The American voyage into the unknown territories of space is over with President Obama’s failure to fund the space program, according to an USA Today opinion piece by astronauts Neil Armstrong, Jim Lovell, and Gene Cernan.
According to the three, each of whom commanded missions to the moon, previous administrations have kept in line with former President Kennedy’s vision to explore the deepest pockets of our universe by funding various programs throughout the years. In 2005, NASA launched the Constellation program, which sought to send another astronaut to explore the moon and eventually Mars. But in his 2011 budget proposal, Obama failed to include funding, which would virtually end the program.
“Obama’s advisers, in searching for a new and different NASA strategy with which the president could be favorably identified, ignored NASA’s operational mandate and strayed widely from President Kennedy’s vision,” the astronauts said.
While Congress passed a bill that would allow NASA to develop rockets capable of carrying humans to the moon, Obama’s 2012 budget reduced the program's funding significantly, Armstrong wrote.
In 2010, Obama predicted his plans for the space program would put an astronaut on Mars by the 2030s, promising $6 billion over five years to the agency.
Though the astronauts feel Obama has hacked up the space program, NASA was largely spared big cuts in Obama’s budget proposal. The president’s plan matched the 2010 funding of $18.7 billion but lacked the $2 billion promised to the space operation program.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/obama-gr ... y-20110525

[Schneibster]

On the other thread, you want him not to spend stimulus money; it's "irresponsible." On this one, you want stimulus money.

Make up your fucking mind.

[Coito ergo sum]

On the other thread, you want him not to spend stimulus money; it's "irresponsible." On this one, you want stimulus money.

Make up your fucking mind.

I never said I thought the government should never spend money, and that all spending was irresponsible. Let me know if it's too difficult for you to puzzle out the distinction as to why sending men back to the Moon, setting up a Moon base, and working on a manned mission to Mars might be a better use of funds than things like turtle crossings and paying Microsoft to build a bridge between two parts of its own campus in Washington and the list of 1,000 other bullshit projects that the "Stimulus" money was flushed down the toilet on.

FFS - based on what they spent the money on, a better use of funds would have been to take $500 billion and distribute it equally among 5,000,000 low-to-middle income families, and have done with it. Just write them fucking checks instead of paying an incompetent bureaucracy to dole out fraud and pork.

[Schneibster]

On the other thread, you want him not to spend stimulus money; it's "irresponsible." On this one, you want stimulus money.

Make up your fucking mind.

I never said I thought the government should never spend money, and that all spending was irresponsible.

Yeah, only if that nigger does it, right?

[Coito ergo sum]

On the other thread, you want him not to spend stimulus money; it's "irresponsible." On this one, you want stimulus money.

Make up your fucking mind.

I never said I thought the government should never spend money, and that all spending was irresponsible.

Yeah, only if that nigger does it, right?

No, only if the spending is stupid, which the "Stimulus" Program took to new heights, and then we have the "Cash for Clunkers" bullshit.

Don't fucking imply that I'm racist. Your nonsense is getting old.

[Schneibster]

On the other thread, you want him not to spend stimulus money; it's "irresponsible." On this one, you want stimulus money.

Make up your fucking mind.

I never said I thought the government should never spend money, and that all spending was irresponsible.

Yeah, only if that nigger does it, right?

No, only if the spending is stupid, which the "Stimulus" Program took to new heights,

We already did this.

[Coito ergo sum]

Don't derail this thread. Talk about the Space Program if you want to, but I won't respond further to your Stimulus nonsense, or your implications that I'm a racist, and all your other troll tactics.

[Schneibster]

Then don't post propaganda and try to game the system to get out of responding and/or stop me when I prove it's propaganda.

[Coito ergo sum]

Then don't post propaganda and try to game the system to get out of responding and/or stop me when I prove it's propaganda.

Nothing I posted is propaganda. Link to it. Prove it.

I haven't gamed the system, or got out of responding to anything. I've responded to everything you've asked, as far as I know. If there is something you think I haven't answered, then by all means - state the question succinctly, or link to the post you so desperately want me to respond to. If you don't care to do that, then it's obvious you are full of shit.

Stop trolling. And, stop following me around like a puppy dog, trying to derail threads.

[Schneibster]

Then don't post propaganda and try to game the system to get out of responding and/or stop me when I prove it's propaganda.

Nothing I posted is propaganda. Link to it. Prove it.

I did. You made posts beginning with lies; my policy is I don't read or respond past the first lie.

If you have arguments and want me to read them it's best you keep this in mind.

[Coito ergo sum]

NASA Needs to Preserve Skilled Astronaut Corps In Post-Shuttle Era, Says New Report

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=34534

[Coito ergo sum]

Then don't post propaganda and try to game the system to get out of responding and/or stop me when I prove it's propaganda.

Nothing I posted is propaganda. Link to it. Prove it.

I did. You made posts beginning with lies; my policy is I don't read or respond past the first lie.

I didn't lie. Your accusations are complete and utter bullshit.

I don't give a flying fuck what your policy is. It sounds like you're breaking your policy and continuing to respond to me. I'd prefer that you followed it, so I wouldn't have to be saddled with your constant sniping at my heels.

If you have arguments and want me to read them it's best you keep this in mind.

I don't give a fuck whether you read anything. I don't "want" you to do anything except stop trolling me, stop lying about me, stop calling me a racist and stop the other personal attacks. Stop following me around.

You haven't done anything except lose all your points, like your asinine assertion that $2 trillion was spent by the Bush administration on Iraq, and other such tripe. You don't even know what your saying half the time. All you do is spew talking points. That much is obvious.

Oh wait - prediction for next response: will it be a squid emoticon or another one of your one-liner blurbs calling me a liar or a racist? Which will it be?