Gormless Gove fucks it up big time!

[Svartalf]

dere are more depths in philosophy than in all your hard sciences Boratio.

[Geoff]

There is nothing seriously wrong with education in the UK what there are serious problems with are the pupils. Some are basically so badly brought up they are in affect brain damaged before they even a classroom. A well brought up kid will be able to stay still and quiet for at least a few minutes, have some reading ability and some concept of concentration before they take their first lesson. For those who don't you might as well put them in prison or prepare them for a life of the dole.

Thats not to say you can't bring up around these out of control kids if you through enough resources into each one individually but that sort of money doesnt exist

I disagree with your opening sentence, though the rest is certainly true.

Two factors I'd identify are the lack of, or difficulty in, providing proper discipline in schools, and the overwhelming bureaucratic burden on teachers.

[Atheist-Lite]

dere are more depths in philosophy than in all your hard sciences Boratio.

If kids are taught or rewarded for being life-long learners then they'll have plenty of time to explore the 'the soft side of learning' in their own time - time which they currently waste with murder simulators.

[Svartalf]

and literature, philosophy, history and the arts are much better incentives at lifelong learning than mathematical equations or physical mysteries that require millions worth of installations/labs to explore.

[Atheist-Lite]

and literature, philosophy, history and the arts are much better incentives at lifelong learning than mathematical equations or physical mysteries that require millions worth of installations/labs to explore.

Yeah. Einstein would have been lost without his supercomputer. At least he had a chair to sit on though. Those post-Newtonian mathematical equations sit on a cheap pad of paper. What would we ever do without his resources ???

[Svartalf]

Einstein was 100 years ago, maybe you haven't noticed that the amount of number crunching necessary to effect scientific progress has slightly increased in the meantime.

Now, if you can quote me a major scientific advance that could be achieved without supercomputers or million dollar equipment in the last 15 years, maybe you'll have a point.

[Geoff]

Einstein was 100 years ago, maybe you haven't noticed that the amount of number crunching necessary to effect scientific progress has slightly increased in the meantime.

Now, if you can quote me a major scientific advance that could be achieved without supercomputers or million dollar equipment in the last 15 years, maybe you'll have a point.

15 years is unfair, major scientific advances don't happen that often...I'd say there haven't been any, with or without supercomputers, in that period. The discovery of the DNA structure is probably the most recent advance that would qualify as "major".

[Svartalf]

Maybe not that major... I might scale my demands down to something nobel worthy, including the relatively minor stuff like graphene.

[Atheist-Lite]

Graphene will have to wait until after the coming Dark Age. I mean the Romans had steam engines but they had to still wait over a thousand years. This global civilization is on the brink of utter collapse. It is too late to save it.

[Svartalf]

Does this mean you admit defeat?

Because last I check, the only "steam engine" the Romans ever knew was Hero the alexandrian's little toy.
Even if they had felt the need to actuate factories or vehicles with something else than animals, slaves or water, I'm not even sure they had the metallurgy needed for boilers and piping like those needed for any kind of useful steam engine, which may be the actual reason steam power did not take off before the enlightenment.

[Atheist-Lite]

Does this mean you admit defeat?

Because last I check, the only "steam engine" the Romans ever knew was Hero the alexandrian's little toy.
Even if they had felt the need to actuate factories or vehicles with something else than animals, slaves or water, I'm not even sure they had the metallurgy needed for boilers and piping like those needed for any kind of useful steam engine, which may be the actual reason steam power did not take off before the enlightenment.

Let's not get pedantic and anal over steam technology. That was a little imagery not pertinent to my central argument at all. The current system is gonna implode. It is easy to grasp when you consider all of the unsustainable growth patterns, everywhere and at every turn. This kind of technological civilization is a rise to a fall. Once the wheels come off the end will be swift, digital.

[Svartalf]

how not to get anal when you spew shit like you had eaten like a whole flock of cattle?
Because you have no actual argument to be pertinent about. Implosion is no more likely than the world ending 3 days before Xmas.
We know there are unsustainable growth patterns, but we don't what's gonna give yet.

With luck, we can depopulate China and Africa and take over what's left, and maintain a modicum of status quo.

[Atheist-Lite]

how not to get anal when you spew shit like you had eaten like a whole flock of cattle?
Because you have no actual argument to be pertinent about. Implosion is no more likely than the world ending 3 days before Xmas.
We know there are unsustainable growth patterns, but we don't what's gonna give yet.

With luck, we can depopulate China and Africa and take over what's left, and maintain a modicum of status quo.

This ship can and will sink. There is no safety net concerning herd stupidity, the dollar crash will come and will end stable currency exchange - intricate items like computers, requiring massive co-operation between nations, will no longer be constructed after a short time. Small towns surrounded by geographic barriers might be a wise bet? Very few of these later day Constantinoples about for which to preserve any remnants of modern culture. A bleak time ahead for utopians.

[MrJonno]

Two factors I'd identify are the lack of, or difficulty in, providing proper discipline in schools, and the overwhelming bureaucratic burden on teachers

When it comes to discipline only a limited amount should be needed to control children, its not a schools job to teach a children that kicking the shit out of another child is a bad thing thats parents role. If a school needs to do more than give a kid lines or detention for not doing their homework that the school isnt at fault the pupil/parents are

[Atheist-Lite]

Two factors I'd identify are the lack of, or difficulty in, providing proper discipline in schools, and the overwhelming bureaucratic burden on teachers

When it comes to discipline only a limited amount should be needed to control children, its not a schools job to teach a children that kicking the shit out of another child is a bad thing thats parents role. If a school needs to do more than give a kid lines or detention for not doing their homework that the school isnt at fault the pupil/parents are

Actually some kids deserve a slap from their peers. That's no problem so long as it doesn't escalate into general anarchy. Expel the weakest, not the bully, unless you want a nation of doormats?