Robert Gates - hints at US pulling out of NATO

[sandinista]

maybe not as good as some would believe... slashing military personnel would put a lot of people on the job market, and even slashing spendings while keeping the personnel would still harm a lot of US companies and probably force the economy into some dump, at least short term.

pretty much true, the US economy would go even further in the shitter. It's a war, imperialist, interventionist based economy, the military industrial complex. There is a reason the US is always bombing, invading, and occupying countries. War...what is it good for? It's good for business.

[Seth]

I wonder what the impact on the US economy would be if we just decided to slash our military spending and go isolationist.

Dunno, but I'd much rather deal with the fallout from that act than continue to pour billions and trillions down the rat-holes of Eurosocialism and third-world gun-barrel politics.

I say we let Europe and the rest of the world defend themselves for awhile, at their expense, and we task our military with securing OUR interests, here and abroad, and nobody else's.

After all, the very reason that Europe still exists as a viable economy is because during the Cold War and ever since, they have not had to pour trillions into their own military protection because the US has been willing to garrison Europe against the Soviets for all these decades. So they were able to turn all that economy-draining government taxation that nations normally have to spend on national defense into keeping their socialist entitlement dependency cultures alive. Well, the gravy train's at an end, and now Eurosocialism is ripping apart at the seams, as we can see from Greece, Spain, Portugal, the UK, and France, which are all on the ropes economically, along with many others, because socialism never works. They just lasted much longer because the US was willing to fund the destruction of the Soviet Union for them.

Fuck 'em. Kick them out of the nest and let them fend for themselves for awhile and see how they like it.

[Seth]

maybe not as good as some would believe... slashing military personnel would put a lot of people on the job market, and even slashing spendings while keeping the personnel would still harm a lot of US companies and probably force the economy into some dump, at least short term.

pretty much true, the US economy would go even further in the shitter. It's a war, imperialist, interventionist based economy, the military industrial complex. There is a reason the US is always bombing, invading, and occupying countries. War...what is it good for? It's good for business.

Hardly. Our standing army consists of fewer than 1.5 million regular full-time troops, all services combined. Nor do we need to slash our military in order to become isolationist in our policies about deploying troops. In fact, we need to keep a strong military in order to defend our interests here and abroad.

I just want us to stop spending our money and time helping OTHER nations in time of need, unless it's of direct economic benefit exceeding the costs of combat for us to do so.

Next earthquake in Haiti or tsunami in Indonesia, fuck 'em all, let the rest of the world spend their treasure and troops being altruistic and noble. We do it all the time and get no credit from the horse's asses overseas for doing so, so it's time to let the rest of the world be hoist on it's own petard to show them as the selfish ingrates they are. After all, how many other nations sent relief supplies, money or physical assistance to the US after a natural disaster like Hurricane Katrina or the tornado outbreaks of late?

Not very damned many, and they sent token assistance. Fine. They can all go swing in the wind for all I care.

[Svartalf]

You forget something Seth... all that foreign aid stuff is not just a bunch of boondoggles, it's a way of keeping the military (those that aren't in Afghanistan) busy in peacetime. Not that revolt from idle troops is to be feared, but there's only so much training you can do before more becomes just redundant, and using that budget saves on budgeting other foreign aid while providing relief where immediate help is needed. Remember, this is all about allies and potential client states, it's not like it were purely altruistic.

[sandinista]

Hardly. Our standing army consists of fewer than 1.5 million regular full-time troops, all services combined.

and support staff, weapons manufacturers, cia, transport manufacturers etc.

it's not like it were purely altruistic.

[MrJonno]

I thought the US army would have to concentrate on taking on Seth, its only got 1.5 million people is that going to be enough versus him?

[Geoff]

I thought the US army would have to concentrate on taking on Seth, its only got 1.5 million people is that going to be enough versus him?

I think we should take off and nuke him from orbit, it's the only way to be sure...

[Coito ergo sum]

I say scrap it, and leave the US to fight it's own wars alone.

The US is far more capable of doing that than Europe as a whole is. Look at the crying and moaning from the European "powers" when the US was reluctant to move in

Bring Russia into the EU and have a European United States, with one army.
.

You can want to marry yourselves to Russia, if that's your preference. However, be careful what you wish for.

In any case - go for it. We've been paying for a large part of the defense of Europe since WW2. And, if you think Russia won't have designs on western Europe again, you might be right....

[SPMaximus]

In any case - go for it. We've been paying for a large part of the defense of Europe since WW2. And, if you think Russia won't have designs on western Europe again, you might be right....

what have you been paying for?

[Coito ergo sum]

Bases in Europe - military hardware, men and munitions. You know...army stuff.

[SPMaximus]

not good enough, i want specifics, data, how much money, where, what equipment etc

[Coito ergo sum]

not good enough, i want specifics, data, how much money, where, what equipment etc

This is something of a surprise to you? Are you contesting it, or just testing me?

Before I get to educating you, we'll want to be clear on the position you're taking here. What are you saying?

[SPMaximus]

im not saying anything i just want the data

because it would be interesting to know

[Geoff]

Given how tiny the total NATO budget is (compared to US total defence spending), I'd be surprised if it would be all that significant a saving.

[Coito ergo sum]

im not saying anything i just want the data

because it would be interesting to know

Nah - I'll not go research the data unless there is an issue to resolve - i.e., unless you're going to take a contrary position of some sort. I'll not do it if we are in basic agreement.