Vote on Palestinian Statehood Looms

[pErvinalia]

and...jeez you would expect a washington post "editorial" to back Perkins and his outing of the IMF, CIa, and US multinationals.

"I absolutely LOVE how part of the evils he recounts as being perpetrated by "forced loans" from the IMF to poor countries is the construction of power plants, ports and highways! LOL - oh, yes - it's a TRAP! No power plants, ports and highways for poor countries.... it only oppresses them...."

read his books, you may understand. I'm not going to spend my time explaining it to you. It's not that complicated. All you need to do is some base analysis.

Yep. And he should also read Joseph Stiglitz' book about Globalisation and the coercion role played by the IMF and World Bank. And Stiglitz was as former VP (or was it Pres?) of the world bank. He's also a Nobel Prize winner for economics.

[sandinista]

and...jeez you would expect a washington post "editorial" to back Perkins and his outing of the IMF, CIa, and US multinationals.

"I absolutely LOVE how part of the evils he recounts as being perpetrated by "forced loans" from the IMF to poor countries is the construction of power plants, ports and highways! LOL - oh, yes - it's a TRAP! No power plants, ports and highways for poor countries.... it only oppresses them...."

read his books, you may understand. I'm not going to spend my time explaining it to you. It's not that complicated. All you need to do is some base analysis.

Yep. And he should also read Joseph Stiglitz' book about Globalisation and the coercion role played by the IMF and World Bank. And Stiglitz was as former VP (or was it Pres?) of the world bank. He's also a Nobel Prize winner for economics.

I really think coito believes (in a faith like kind of way) that the IMF gives out low interest loans with no conditions attached and no coercion involved to government who actually use the loans to help their people. It's a fantasy, utopian, ideologically engrained world view. He acts like a corporate controlled government is some kind of crazy radical thought or something. It's pretty much general knowledge to anyone who has ever studied foreign policy or political science. To him it's some kind of wild conspiracy "theory". The US are masters at propaganda, I'll give them that. USA #1!!

[Seth]

Seth, this post contains repeated personal attacks on Sandinista. Our rules are very clear on this and you have been reminded enough times to be in no doubt about that.

Another outburst like this and your account will be suspended for at least 24 hours.

Thanks for the warning. I'm feeling much better now.

[Seth]

I knew the "America Fuck Yea!" argument would come out.

just like I knew the "conspiracy theory" "argument" would come out.

Of course, I have never said "America fuck yea" or, "America is number one" or "America is always right" or anything of the kind.

You HAVE in fact said "America is run by 'corporate power'" and have steadfastly refused to define at all what that means. You just thing THEY - The Corporations - control it all.

Which corporations? Well, the answer to that is that I either just don't get it, or I think America is awesome, fuck yeah. Right?

So, come on. Corporate power - what is it? GE? Google? Ford? Chrysler? Ben & Jerry's? The Original Ray's Pizza, Inc.? Checker Cab? Some combination?

That's why my recognition of the INFLUENCE of corporations is the accurate statement, and not your "corporate power" controls America. If it controlled America, then we'd not have an EPA and the auto companies would never have been required, against their wishes, to build mandatory seat belts and other safety systems into vehicles. Apparently, it's not the auto companies that control the US. Must be some other corporations...

Actually, I think there is a conspiracy involved, but it's not American corporations, it's people like George Soros and the Progressives and Fabian Socialists, along with some banks, that are attempting to remake the world in the Progressive global government image. Soros makes no bones about his economic and political activities that have toppled several governments, nearly including the UK.

And I don't think it's a theory, I think it's a fact, one which has been well documented and laid out by none other than Glenn Beck.

[pErvinalia]

[Coito ergo sum]

and...jeez you would expect a washington post "editorial" to back Perkins and his outing of the IMF, CIa, and US multinationals.

"I absolutely LOVE how part of the evils he recounts as being perpetrated by "forced loans" from the IMF to poor countries is the construction of power plants, ports and highways! LOL - oh, yes - it's a TRAP! No power plants, ports and highways for poor countries.... it only oppresses them...."

read his books, you may understand. I'm not going to spend my time explaining it to you. It's not that complicated. All you need to do is some base analysis.

Yep. And he should also read Joseph Stiglitz' book about Globalisation and the coercion role played by the IMF and World Bank. And Stiglitz was as former VP (or was it Pres?) of the world bank. He's also a Nobel Prize winner for economics.

I really think coito believes (in a faith like kind of way) that the IMF gives out low interest loans with no conditions attached and no coercion involved to government who actually use the loans to help their people. It's a fantasy, utopian, ideologically engrained world view. He acts like a corporate controlled government is some kind of crazy radical thought or something. It's pretty much general knowledge to anyone who has ever studied foreign policy or political science. To him it's some kind of wild conspiracy "theory". The US are masters at propaganda, I'll give them that. USA #1!!

Actually, it isn't. I am quite sure that IMF loans are used and abused, much like most other government aid is. I do not, however, succumb to the notion that it's all bad, and all a big scam to bilk the third world. If anything is a fantasy, it's your position on this.

Moreover, Perkins himself said in the video you posted that the money was (apparently in his view "nefariously") used to build ports, power plants and highways. Those all sound like good things to me. So, this may well be a difference of opinion about what is actually good for a third world country. You folks may think that that new ports, power plants and roads have no good aspects, and are only money making opportunities for port builders, power plant builders and road construction companies, but I take a more middle ground on that issue.

This is another example of you taking a black-and-white view of a grey world. To you, it's either a scam or it's not. There isn't room for there to have been some good done and some corruption. Also, it's not that it's "some kind of wild conspiracy" TO ME - it's that you and Perkins describe it as such - shadowy figures lurking behind the scenes - hidden knowledge to which only a few anointed ones are privy. These are red flags for any conspiracy theory, and apparently several folks reviewing Perkins' book "Confessions" have identified as well - he's short on facts and proof, and long on unsubstantiated allegations, so say his critics.

No, I haven't read his book, and I've been candid about that. I am interested now in doing so, since this issue came up. As soon as I can grab a copy, I will.

[Seth]

and...jeez you would expect a washington post "editorial" to back Perkins and his outing of the IMF, CIa, and US multinationals.

LOL - because as Perkins HIMSELF said...those damn "corporatists" schemed to build ports, power plants and highways in poor countries, and managed to reduce poverty and decrease infant mortality, etc. in those countries....those evil bastards!

As for the WP "editorial" - it makes a lot more fucking sense than the self-serving screeds produced by fucknuts like Perkins...to sell books...

I love how the editorial writer to you is unbelievable, but Perkins, with an obvious interest to sell his book by whipping up fervor among folks showing up to listen to his bullshit is absolutely incontrovertible to you....

Leftist nitwits require an enemy in order to propound Marxist hate-speech propaganda and whip up the lumpen proletariat into a frenzy. In the absence of adequate education and understanding on the part of the lumpen proletariat in the meaning of the word "bourgeoisie" the new term is "corporation," which is easier for the idiots who cling to Marxism to understand.

Marxism needs a visible entity to blame for all the social ills of the world, and the oppression of the lumpen proletariat, and corporations are perfect because they can be easily miscast as not really being human at all. They are just this amorphous "thing" that the first-grade intellects of Socialism don't really understand. Take for example the commonly heard canard that corporations are "ruled" by their wealthy CEOs and that the investors have no power and are somehow enslaved to the corporation, which evidently sends out thugs in the night to demand that they either buy stocks or they will be kneecapped. This is often heard over at Rat Skep from some nitwit who uses numbers for his username.

It's complete ignorant nonsense of course, because the law requires that the corporation hold an annual meeting at which the shareholders can vote on any number of things, including the makeup of the Board of Directors, who hires and fires the CEO. That most shareholders don't get involved has to do with the fact that the corporations are generally doing what the shareholders want it to do: Make them money.

So, they don't mind if the CEO makes a hundred-million dollars in salary, if he's generating a BILLION dollars in profit for the corporation through his leadership. If he fucks it up, however, the shareholders can easily get him out of office if they want to, because they have control over the Board of Directors.

These Marxist nitwits just propagandize against corporations because they are the modern equivalent of the hated bourgeois merchant class against whom Marxists have always been at war simply because the corporations are in the business of making profits.

And that's the key to debunking Perkins self-serving Marxist twaddle. Corporations go into third-world countries for one reason only: Profit. And they expect to make a profit in two ways: By being granted license by the local government to extract and exploit natural resources that are currently not being extracted and exploited, and by selling products to the local residents.

In the process, they bring education to third-world shitholes because they need workers who know the difference between their assholes and holes in the ground and know which direction to turn a wrench to tighten a bolt on the local infrastructure that they hire the locals to build or they need to know how to operate an assembly line assembling products for shipment to other countries. They bring health care because they need healthy workers. They bring food and other products that raise the standard of living for locals up because they need workers who aren't rioting all the time because they are starving. And when an oil or mining company comes to town, other corporations follow to serve the needs of the corporation and the local economy.

Every time Nike builds a shoe factory in some shithole country, the standard of living goes up and people who were grubbing in the soil with sticks start to climb the economic ladder to success because they are now getting paid much more than they were getting paid before when they were living hand to mouth in some jungle. That they don't make US minimum wage has to do with the fact that the market for labor in their country is different and the cost of living is also different. Whatever they get paid, they are generally glad to have the work because it's better pay that what they could get otherwise.

Corporations are about making money, that's it. They compete with one another for market share and they come and go with the ebb and flow of free market capitalism.

And it's up to the governments of the shithole countries involved to regulate corporations to prevent them from being predatory or polluting the environment. And if the government of such countries chooses not to do so, then people should complain to the government, or refuse to buy the products of the corporation, in which case the corporation will go out of business.

But we all like our cheap microwaves, TV's and athletic shoes, not to mention oil, so we go right on buying, even the hypocritical Marxists among us who are just as guilty of exploiting third-world-shithole residents as anyone else.

But in the process, prosperity comes to third-world shitholes...eventually... because the more successful the corporation, the more money flows into the shit-hole country they use as a labor pool. It can be an ugly process and yes, some corporations can be bad actors, but for the most part those are NOT US corporations, they are local corporations run by local residents who screw over other members of their own communities over which the US has absolutely no control whatsoever. Ire should be directed at the local shitheels and the corrupt government involved, not the US.

It's certainly greed that drives third-world shithole corporate miscounduct, but it's not American greed, it's the greed of the local shareholders and local CEOs of the local corporations and the local shitheel corrupt government officials who engage in such misconduct.

US corporations are too wise to get involved in such shenanigans because it backfires badly in their markets when it's discovered that they have not taken adequate precautions to protect the local economy and environment. It's almost always some local sub-contractor cutting corners and violating contractual obligations who fucks it up. In one recent notorious case, a spill of mercury contaminated a small village in Bolivia (as I recall) and everybody blamed the corporate owners of the mine the mercury was destined for. Problem is that it was some local asshat who was transporting the materials under contract who caused the spill, and the corporation that owned the mine spent a lot of money cleaning it up.

And US mining corporations also get wrongfully blamed by fuckwads like Perkins for contamination and environmental damage caused by illegal mining operations in South America, which are the result of individuals rushing off to a gold strike in the jungle who are too stupid to understand that you can't amalgamate gold using mercury and then cook off the mercury over an open fire without getting mercury poisoning.

There's no corporate conspiracy going on, it's all Marxist propaganda, nothing more.

[Seth]

and...jeez you would expect a washington post "editorial" to back Perkins and his outing of the IMF, CIa, and US multinationals.

LOL - because as Perkins HIMSELF said...those damn "corporatists" schemed to build ports, power plants and highways in poor countries, and managed to reduce poverty and decrease infant mortality, etc. in those countries....those evil bastards!

As for the WP "editorial" - it makes a lot more fucking sense than the self-serving screeds produced by fucknuts like Perkins...to sell books...

I love how the editorial writer to you is unbelievable, but Perkins, with an obvious interest to sell his book by whipping up fervor among folks showing up to listen to his bullshit is absolutely incontrovertible to you....

I love how you'll believe an editorial in a major newspaper about an authors book which you haven't even read.

I don't have to believe the editorial. I just need to listen to Perkins' own words. Once again. The "evil" that he claimed occurred - in his own video that you posted - was "building ports, power plants, and highways..." -- Oh, my fucking GOD! Really? Poor countries were duped into taking out loans to build powerplants, ports and highways????? Will the abominations never cease!

Dude - those are GOOD things for a country. Ports are used so that ships can get in and out, and that poor country can become less poor by shipping products. Highways are built to facilitate transportation within the country, and power plants generate, uhhh....power...so that people can be have light and heat... bastard corporatists!

What would be a help, if not power plants, ports and highways? Just buy the people in the poor countries more tin shacks and supply them with extra blankets?

CES, don't blow a gasket, man. Marxist dupes don't have the native intelligence to be able to understand what you're saying. They have drunk the Kool-aid and are True Believers and thus are immune to reason and fact. In their LSD-fueled imaginations wrong is right and anybody who rails against capitalism must be a Prophet from Marx himself. It ceases to even be amusing to twit them and watch them froth at the mouth.

[sandinista]

Yah coito, don't worry about it. You'll always have seth backing you up!

[pErvinalia]

[Coito ergo sum]

rEvolutionist and sandinista:

[sandinista]

rEvolutionist and sandinista:

rather be in a pod with rEvolutionist than seth, so...good luck with that.

[Coito ergo sum]

rEvolutionist and sandinista:

rather be in a pod with rEvolutionist than seth, so...good luck with that.

I don't have to worry about that, since I disagree with Seth on most issues.

[sandinista]

I don't have to worry about that, since I disagree with Seth on most issues.

You can try to distance yourself all you want, but when it comes to most topics you and seth always agree. One reason he likes to come to your defense, don't fight it, embrace it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What kind of cloth does one make with "statehood" looms and what does this voting entail?