The Alice Illusion

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The Alice Illusion

Post by charlou » Fri May 27, 2011 3:58 am

Fascinating stuff ...
In Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, the titular heroine quaffs a potion that shrinks her down to the size of a doll, and eats a cake that makes her grow to gigantic proportions. Such magic doesn’t exist outside of Lewis Carroll’s imagination, but there are certainly ways of making people think that they have changed in size.

There’s nowhere in the world that’s better at creating such illusions than the lab of Henrik Ehrsson in Sweden’s Karolinska Institute. In a typical experiment, a volunteer is being stroked while wearing a virtual reality headset. She’s lyng down and looking at her feet, but she doesn’t see them. Instead, the headset shows her the legs of a mannequin lying next to her.

As she watches, Bjorn van der Hoort, one of Ehrsson’s former interns, uses two rods to stroke her leg, and the leg of the mannequin, at the same time. This simple trick creates an overwhelming feeling that the mannequin’s legs are her own. If the legs belong to a Barbie, she feels like she’s the size of a doll. If the legs are huge, she feels like a 13-foot giant.

Van der Hoort performed this illusion on almost 200 people. Questionnaires revealed that they did indeed think of the mannequins as their own body parts. Familiar objects didn’t break the spell. When van der Hoort threatened the mannequins’ legs with a knife, the volunteers’ skin broke into a worried sweat, as if their real bodies were in danger. If he touched the doll’s legs with a pencil or his finger, the recruits thought they were being prodded by giant objects. Rather than feeling like dolls in a normal world, they felt like normal people in a giant world.
More here.


And:
van der Hoort, B. et al. (2011). Being Barbie: The Size of One’s Own Body Determines the Perceived Size of the World PLoS ONE, 6 (5) DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0020195

A classical question in philosophy and psychology is if the sense of one's body influences how one visually perceives the world. Several theoreticians have suggested that our own body serves as a fundamental reference in visual perception of sizes and distances, although compelling experimental evidence for this hypothesis is lacking. In contrast, modern textbooks typically explain the perception of object size and distance by the combination of information from different visual cues. Here, we describe full body illusions in which subjects experience the ownership of a doll's body (80 cm or 30 cm) and a giant's body (400 cm) and use these as tools to demonstrate that the size of one's sensed own body directly influences the perception of object size and distance. These effects were quantified in ten separate experiments with complementary verbal, questionnaire, manual, walking, and physiological measures. When participants experienced the tiny body as their own, they perceived objects to be larger and farther away, and when they experienced the large-body illusion, they perceived objects to be smaller and nearer. Importantly, despite identical retinal input, this “body size effect” was greater when the participants experienced a sense of ownership of the artificial bodies compared to a control condition in which ownership was disrupted. These findings are fundamentally important as they suggest a causal relationship between the representations of body space and external space. Thus, our own body size affects how we perceive the world.

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by hiyymer » Sat May 28, 2011 11:23 am

One thing that reading "Self Comes to Mind" gave me was the sense of how Damasio's "core self" (as opposed to his "biographical self") is all about the relationship of the organism to objects in the world. What is the point of the virtual reality show if the organism is not in it? What contribution would that be to survival? It seems clear that every animal with a brain that produces any level of consciousness must be "self aware". It may not have a "biographical self", a big cortex with the capacity to map a life history, but it's brain must certainly create a here and now self. Damasio asserts that when we are engaged with objects in the world we are experiencing the "core self". The "biographical self" is gone for the moment, and returns when needed through a complex system of hierarchical circuits that he spells out in the book. Doesn't this kind of research show that the self being in the world, big or small, is entirely a brain created perception.

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by Animavore » Sat May 28, 2011 11:27 am

He could've just given them ketamine.

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by kiki5711 » Sat May 28, 2011 12:14 pm

is this anything like the cat's whiskers giving the cat the measure of it's body? If I put on "wolf coat and head" over me, can I start thinking like one?

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by Rum » Sat May 28, 2011 12:30 pm

I wish I could remember where I saw it but there was a TV programme a couple of months ago here about the sense of self, consciousness and awareness. They showed a similar experiment where someone wore a pair of goggles hooked to a camera on the top of a person walking in front of them. The 'subject' in other words was looking at the things someone else was. Quite quickly they transferred their sense of position and where their 'self' was to somewhere close behind where the camera was placed. It was really quite astonishing and it seemed to indicate that one's self awareness is actually not located necessarily inside your head, though the processing obviously remains so.

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by Ironclad » Sat May 28, 2011 12:33 pm

Animavore wrote:He could've just given them ketamine.

Sayin' is all.
We played a game, er tried to play a game of cards with those miniatures you get in a Xmas cracker whilst tripping wildly on LSD. That was fucked up. I thought I was on top of a tower with Mr Tickle arms!
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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by PsychoSerenity » Sat May 28, 2011 12:54 pm

Rum wrote:I wish I could remember where I saw it but there was a TV programme a couple of months ago here about the sense of self, consciousness and awareness. They showed a similar experiment where someone wore a pair of goggles hooked to a camera on the top of a person walking in front of them. The 'subject' in other words was looking at the things someone else was. Quite quickly they transferred their sense of position and where their 'self' was to somewhere close behind where the camera was placed. It was really quite astonishing and it seemed to indicate that one's self awareness is actually not located necessarily inside your head, though the processing obviously remains so.
I think I saw that too, or something similar. It also reminds me of a slight sense of disassociation from my body that I've experienced a couple times while meditating.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by Atheist-Lite » Sat May 28, 2011 1:46 pm

Some people are more suggestible than others. I'd like to see them try to make me feel like I'm a action man. Go on, make my day? :smoke:
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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by pErvinalia » Sat May 28, 2011 1:53 pm

hiyymer wrote:Doesn't this kind of research show that the self being in the world, big or small, is entirely a brain created perception.
And as such, it's not at all surprising that one's perception of their size can change like this. The freaky thing is that one would have a full suite of memories in which the self was either consistently bigger or smaller than what one was currently experiencing. This would be a bit of a mind bending experience, I imagine. Similar, I guess, to the trick of closing your eyes and crossing your fingers and rubbing the crossed fingers up and down your nose to give you the feeling of having two noses.
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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by charlou » Sat May 28, 2011 1:57 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:
hiyymer wrote:Doesn't this kind of research show that the self being in the world, big or small, is entirely a brain created perception.
And as such, it's not at all surprising that one's perception of their size can change like this.
I agree ... in fact, I would have been surprised to learn that perception isn't affected under such circumstances.

hiyymer, it's processed and experienced in the brain, but environment provides the information which the eyes and other sensory organs relay to the brain via the peripheral and central nervous systems.
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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by FBM » Sat May 28, 2011 2:04 pm

Psychoserenity wrote:
Rum wrote:I wish I could remember where I saw it but there was a TV programme a couple of months ago here about the sense of self, consciousness and awareness. They showed a similar experiment where someone wore a pair of goggles hooked to a camera on the top of a person walking in front of them. The 'subject' in other words was looking at the things someone else was. Quite quickly they transferred their sense of position and where their 'self' was to somewhere close behind where the camera was placed. It was really quite astonishing and it seemed to indicate that one's self awareness is actually not located necessarily inside your head, though the processing obviously remains so.
I think I saw that too, or something similar. It also reminds me of a slight sense of disassociation from my body that I've experienced a couple times while meditating.
I think I saw something similar. Fascinating. It may have been a part of this series:

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by apophenia » Sat May 28, 2011 5:31 pm

Fascinating. Thank you, Charlou.

It's reminiscent of V.S. Ramachandran' work with amputees, phantom limbs and treating phantom limb pain with mirror boxes. I can't say I'm surprised that proprioception mirrors other modes of perception, it would be awfully hard to function if their weren't a reconciliation between the two, but it's always neat to see what happens when you fiddle with the knobs on the brain. I'm reminded of a similar question I've had, why do we have an "up"? Certainly we need to know the directionality of gravity, and I'm generalizing on an assumption which isn't open to inspection, but why an up rather than a down? We all know the experiment where special glasses invert a person's world, and after a few days the world rights itself again; why does the brain re-invert the world instead of adapting to the new context? What other modalities have these kinds of properties? I'm ignorant of what work has been done in the area, but it brings up the question of OOBEs, where our experience is not merely a distortion of perception, but a novel fiction created out of a subset of the facts of our experience. What's going on there?

Anyway, very nice Charlou. Much appreciated.
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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by apophenia » Sat May 28, 2011 7:11 pm

hiyymer wrote:One thing that reading "Self Comes to Mind" gave me was the sense of how Damasio's "core self" (as opposed to his "biographical self") is all about the relationship of the organism to objects in the world....Damasio asserts that when we are engaged with objects in the world we are experiencing the "core self". The "biographical self" is gone for the moment....
I've been meaning to get around to Damasio, but I'm a slow reader with many interests and no talent whatsoever for focus.

I'm reminded of Sartre's phenomenological description of the experience he terms "running for the bus" (or somesuch). Upon stepping out of the door and seeing that our bus has already arrived and is in imminent danger of departing without us, at that moment, the bus becomes the central fact of our existence, and self/consciousness drops away. All we are aware of is a thorough sense of panic, and the bus itself. We dash at breakneck speed, jumping suitcases, dodging pedestrians, zigging and zagging our way to the bus without any real consciousness of these obstacles and our tack -- in that moment, it's just us, and the bus. Sartre also observes that consciousness, in addition to being intentional, that consciousness is consciousness of some thing, consciousness is also being conscious of being conscious; we are (normally) conscious of the fact that we are conscious.
That disappears in the experience of "running for the bus".
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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Sat May 28, 2011 7:44 pm

There's a similar experiment where a subject is given a pair of glasses that invert their view of the world; either left/right, up/down, or both. In all cases, after a few minutes of disorientation, the subject learnt to adjust while still seeing the images as wrong. The really cool thing is that after a certain time (honestly can't remember if it was a few hours or a day or two :dunno: ) their brains "flipped" the image so that it looked normal to them and they no longer had to mentally compensate - very much like the point where you stop translating a foreign language into your native tongue and start thinking in it.

The really really really cool thing is that, once the glasses were removed, it took the same amount of time for the subjects to adjust to normal sight - with the same "flipping"!

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Re: The Alice Illusion

Post by charlou » Sat May 28, 2011 7:58 pm

apophenia wrote:I'm reminded of Sartre's phenomenological description of the experience he terms "running for the bus" (or somesuch). Upon stepping out of the door and seeing that our bus has already arrived and is in imminent danger of departing without us, at that moment, the bus becomes the central fact of our existence, and self/consciousness drops away. All we are aware of is a thorough sense of panic, and the bus itself. We dash at breakneck speed, jumping suitcases, dodging pedestrians, zigging and zagging our way to the bus without any real consciousness of these obstacles and our tack -- in that moment, it's just us, and the bus. Sartre also observes that consciousness, in addition to being intentional, that consciousness is consciousness of some thing, consciousness is also being conscious of being conscious; we are (normally) conscious of the fact that we are conscious.
That disappears in the experience of "running for the bus".
hmmm ... normally conscious of our consciousness ... I don't know that we are ... ? and this is nothing to do with whether we think we should be. Mundane, habitual actions would belie that notion, for a start ... Or exercising the mind outside itself in any activity, such as reading, listening to music, or sport, for example, where the focus is externalised rather than on self.

I don't know that it's a case of only extremes .. of being conscious of our consciousness on the one hand, or being unaware of it, on the other hand ... but I think perhaps it's more that those extremes are .. well, just that really ... and there's a graduation of awareness of consciousness linking the two ... or, better put, an ongoing interplay of self awareness and externalised focus ... which likely varies from individual to individual .. the balance based on an array of personal scenarios, underpinned by each individual's unique conditions of genetics, neurology and environment.
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