Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by mistermack » Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 pm

I'm prepared to do a deal with America.
You keep Savage, we'll keep Cat Stevens.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 25, 2011 7:16 pm

Arse wrote: It seems to suggest that you think muslims are being allowed into the country willy nilly to practice hate speech and jet off again, while Michael Savage is being unfairly singled out.
He is being unfairly singled out since he has said nothing that would warrant being banned.
Arse wrote:
What about Fred Phelps, are you annoyed that he's banned from the UK?
Annoyed is too strong a word. I hate Fred Phelps, but he too has said nothing to warrant being banned.

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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Arse » Wed May 25, 2011 7:19 pm

Well, then you disagree with British law. Which is your prerogative, but not a reason to pretend that muslim extremists are treated any differently.
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 25, 2011 7:22 pm

Arse wrote:Well, then you disagree with British law. Which is your prerogative, but not a reason to pretend that muslim extremists are treated any differently.
No. I disagree with how the pinheads in your government who made the decision interpreted British law. They called something black that was white. I think it's a travesty of justice. This isn't a situation where British law says, "You can't do X" and Savage did "X" and therefore committed a crime under British law. This is a law that is very mushy and grey, and what Savage said was considered something that it wasn't (a call to violence).

Muslim extremists are treated differently.

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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Arse » Wed May 25, 2011 7:27 pm

No. I disagree with how the pinheads in your government who made the decision interpreted British law.
Its not my government, I'm not British.
They called something black that was white. I think it's a travesty of justice. This isn't a situation where British law says, "You can't do X" and Savage did "X" and therefore committed a crime under British law. This is a law that is very mushy and grey, and what Savage said was considered something that it wasn't (a call to violence).
Yes, its a grey area and the ultimate call lies with the Home Secretary. If he/she considers something to be hate speech, the speaker can be refused entry into the country. That's the law.
Muslim extremists are treated differently.
No, they're not. Home Secretaries have banned muslims from entering the country too on the grounds of hate speech.
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by MrJonno » Thu May 26, 2011 9:34 am

The law is the Home Secretary can ban any alien entering the country for any reason they see fit. If you think they have done it without a good reason then the problem is with the home secretary not the law which they are just following
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu May 26, 2011 2:17 pm

Arse wrote:
Yes, its a grey area and the ultimate call lies with the Home Secretary. If he/she considers something to be hate speech, the speaker can be refused entry into the country. That's the law.
And, I'm objecting to the home secretary's interpretation, as I said. What Savage said was not hate speech, and can't reasonably be characterized as such, in my view.
Arse wrote:
Muslim extremists are treated differently.
No, they're not. Home Secretaries have banned muslims from entering the country too on the grounds of hate speech.
Michael Savage wasn't banned for hate speech. He was banned for political reasons, because what he said was not hate speech, and certainly not anything to the level that many Muslims routine say with impunity.

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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu May 26, 2011 2:17 pm

MrJonno wrote:The law is the Home Secretary can ban any alien entering the country for any reason they see fit. If you think they have done it without a good reason then the problem is with the home secretary not the law which they are just following
That's what I said exactly. My problem is with the home secretary's interpretation. I think it was a stupid one.

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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by pErvinalia » Thu May 26, 2011 2:40 pm

Has anyone got a link to what this bloke said?
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by MrJonno » Thu May 26, 2011 3:10 pm

Freedom of speech applies to people already in the country, no one is under any obligation to allow people actually into the country to exercise it.

Most of the republican party are such nut jobs their children would be put into care if they lived here so obviously this is being applied with some discrimination
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu May 26, 2011 3:10 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:Has anyone got a link to what this bloke said?
It's hard to find.

Basically he was categorized as someone who "fomented hatred, of such extreme views and expressing them in such a way" as to cause violence if they were allowed into the country.

This is the only statement I found mentioned by anyone in Britain as being a basis for banning him:
There are too many RDDBs [red-diaper doper babies, Savage's term for people supposedly raised by Marxist parents] in high places and in the media and in the courts for us to stand up to this fanatical enemy. And so unless the RDDB is reined in somehow or taken out of power, we're going to die as a nation. I swear to God that's what people are saying to me. And these are intelligent people, wealthy people. They are very depressed by the weakness that America is showing to these psychotics in the Muslim world. They say, "Oh, there's a billion of them." I said, "So, kill 100 million of them, then there'll be 900 million of them." I mean, would you rather die -- would you rather us die than them? I mean, what is it going to take for you people to wake up? Would you rather we disappear or we die? Or would you rather they disappear and they die? Because you're going to have to make that choice sooner rather than later.
As repugnant as that statement may be, it doesn't have any propensity to "cause violence" if he were allowed into Britain. It's hardly even a fomenting of hatred. The government of Britain is not opposed to killing people, and does so all the time.

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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu May 26, 2011 3:14 pm

He does sound a frightful bore and should be banned on that basis.

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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by MrJonno » Thu May 26, 2011 3:33 pm

If he repeated so me of those statements in a British city there would be riots, whether he could be legally charged with inciting it is irrelevant. As a foreign citizen who hasnt entered the country we are no obligation to consider innocent until proven otherwise.

Sorry correct decision in keeping him out
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by pErvinalia » Thu May 26, 2011 3:37 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Has anyone got a link to what this bloke said?
It's hard to find.

Basically he was categorized as someone who "fomented hatred, of such extreme views and expressing them in such a way" as to cause violence if they were allowed into the country.

This is the only statement I found mentioned by anyone in Britain as being a basis for banning him:
There are too many RDDBs [red-diaper doper babies, Savage's term for people supposedly raised by Marxist parents] in high places and in the media and in the courts for us to stand up to this fanatical enemy. And so unless the RDDB is reined in somehow or taken out of power, we're going to die as a nation. I swear to God that's what people are saying to me. And these are intelligent people, wealthy people. They are very depressed by the weakness that America is showing to these psychotics in the Muslim world. They say, "Oh, there's a billion of them." I said, "So, kill 100 million of them, then there'll be 900 million of them." I mean, would you rather die -- would you rather us die than them? I mean, what is it going to take for you people to wake up? Would you rather we disappear or we die? Or would you rather they disappear and they die? Because you're going to have to make that choice sooner rather than later.
As repugnant as that statement may be, it doesn't have any propensity to "cause violence" if he were allowed into Britain. It's hardly even a fomenting of hatred. The government of Britain is not opposed to killing people, and does so all the time.
Well, he's basically 'kill the muslims before they kill us'. Given there are a lot of muslims in the UK, then I don't really see a problem with banning him. He is advocating killing people just because they are muslims. Sounds like hate speech to me.
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Re: Banned in Britain: Michael Savage

Post by MrJonno » Thu May 26, 2011 3:49 pm

Doesnt really matter if its legally provable as hate speech or not its near enough to prevent entry
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