Svartalf wrote:In case gawd doesn't see this, I'll take that position.
Israel has no right to exist because they set themselves up as a state on a territory that wasn't theirs
One - Jews were living there before 1947, and are not some "they" that showed up one day and planted a flag.
Two - Muslims are Israeli citizens too - lots of them.
Svartalf wrote:
in the first place and started evicting and oppressing the actual rightful occupants, by violence whenever there was any resistance, to make place for their own people.
I'd like to see the evidence of this. Citations? Authority?
Svartalf wrote:I
Their vaunted "right of return" to the Holy Lands has been voided by over 1.000 years of acquisitive prescription on the parts of locals who occupied the country without stealing it from the Jews in the first place. Basically, they've done perfect mechanical reciprocation of the evil done to them by inflicting evil on people who had done them no harm.
The "Holy Land" was forcibly conquered by Muslims.
Svartalf wrote:
Jews are not even a nation, to claim lands, as the clashes between the various brands (sfardi vs ashkenazi; orthodox vs conservative vs liberal ...) they are a religion now, not an actual people... they didn't even have a common language before Old Hebrew was revived as a vernacular after being dead for 2500 years.
Muslims are not even a nation either, but Syria, Lebanon (was Christian up through the 1980s), Jordan, Iraq....they're all Muslim countries.
The Ottoman Empire fell in 1917, and after WW1, the Brits took over part of it with the British Mandate for Palestine, and the French took over another part with the French Mandate. The Ottomans had ruled for around 500 odd years, after forcibly conquering the last bits of the Christian Byzantine Empire, which ruled since the 5th century AD. Prior to that, it was Roman.
Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Israel did not exist prior to 1917 - ever - Israel has Biblical references, and the Palestinians trace themselves back to the Philistines, but that's 2000+ years ago - FOR BOTH OF THEM. Jews lived in the Holy Lands, as did Christians and Muslims.
The carcass of the Ottoman empire then got carved up in the decades after World War 1. Syria is drawn - Transjordan (later renamed Jordan when it gave up its claim to the West Bank of the Jordan river and was no longer literally "trans" the Jordan...) was arbitrarily carved out - Iraq was arbitrarily carved out, etc.
Lebanon = Christian (lots of Arab Christians)
Transjordan, Syria, Iraq = Muslim (lots of Muslims).
Drum roll please.....
Israel - Jewish.
Why not?
Is the land inherently "Islamic?" Must every square inch of the Old Ottoman Empire be Islamic? Why?
That's how these countries were formed. Plenty of Jews were run out of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Transjordan in 1947 (and at other times) - plenty of them were "evicted" and nobody gives a flying fuck about their "rights" here when "they" (the Arab Muslims) ran them out. Nobody seems to bother much about all these Muslim countries being "Muslim" countries.
One little, tiny, New Jersey-sized strip of land - WITH NO OIL - is Jewish, rather than Christian or Muslim - and everyone has a "Nakba" fit left and right.
I still haven't heard why Israel has no right to exist, but Jordan does. Jordanian Muslims evicted and oppressed Jews. Jordan was arbitrarily drawn on a map, just like Israel. And, the two came from the same chunk of a dead Empire. Why is one assumed to have a right to exist, and the other not?
Similarly, why does Lebanon have a right to exist, but not Israel? Lebanon, moreover, was in fact basically a Christian country a few decades ago, and the "Nakba" of a Christian country in what should - according to Arab Muslims - rightfully be "Muslim" land - had to be addressed....and it WAS addressed. And, guess what? They won. Christians were driven out, killed, and are now the minority in Lebanon.
