Evil = Lack of Empathy?

[Jason]

I think calling something evil is tantamount to communicating your dislike of it. Evil is an objectively useless adjective. Metaphorically it's any force that competes with your progress. Useless. That's what evil is.

Is 'evil' an adjective or a noun? Make up your mind!

[Jason]

and it's not black and white

What is ... other than .. say .. black and .. white ..? Even then there's a range of shades to consider. Fark.

hmm.. black is simply the absence of light.. so evil is black and good is light, or 'white', so then evil is simply the absence of good. Therefore it follows evil doesn't exist except as a linguistic foible to describe the complete absence of good leaving us with various degrees, or 'shades', of good.

So what's this 'good' thingy then?

[charlou]

[charlou]

[Atheist-Lite]

'Evil' invokes too many negative emotional reactions. I don't think 'empathy erosion' covers the ground we're seeking here since cool analytical types can be found working on nuclear weapons projects and aids research despite their apparent 'deficit in social skills'. I suggest a term ' human destruction potential' which would easily put most world leaders in the correct box, along with other unsavoury folks like the police and burglars. This HDP could be derived from things like extremes of reaction times, tests for suden anger or cold vengence, things like empathy erosion or utilitarian empathy(charm) would be a part but not the whole - we don't want to single out ze acting profession as evil?

[Ronja]

Was listening to the Guardian science podcast yesterday and was struck by this interesting discussion with Simon Baron-Cohen re his new book, Zero Degrees of Empathy and his idea that evil should be redefined as a deficit of empathy.

Extended interview here:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/audio ... aron-cohen

Apparently, about 10 areas of the brain are implicated in "feelings of empathy" and it's when they go wrong that humans are able to regard other humans merely as objects, which can be broken without remorse or much emotion at all.

A scientific definition of "evil"....

This is a bad thing.

At the moment we judge people by what they do, not what they are.

This is just another step in changing how we think of crime and think of people. Right now people are presumed innocent . This research could change everyone into presumed guilty.

I don't quite get this comment - what would be the mechanisms that lead from the current evaluation of deeds to a "presumed guilty" scenario? Through what kind of steps of social / cultural / legal / other change would we get from here to there?

[charlou]

If you have an hour to spare, and are interested in this topic, this item is interesting : This American Life: The Psychopath Test

NPR Science Correspondent Alix Spiegel tells the story of Robert Dixon, who's in a maximum security prison in Vacaville California and is unlikely to ever get parole because of his score on the psychopath test. The test also is called "the checklist" or, more formally, the PCL-R, which stands for "Psychopathy Check List—Revised." Alix tells the story of its creation and reports that the man who created the test, Bob Hare, is concerned at how it's being used today in the criminal justice system.

[Atheist-Lite]

If you have a spare hour, and are interested in this topic, this is interesting : http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... opath-test

NPR Science Correspondent Alix Spiegel tells the story of Robert Dixon, who's in a maximum security prison in Vacaville California and is unlikely to ever get parole because of his score on the psychopath test. The test also is called "the checklist" or, more formally, the PCL-R, which stands for "Psychopathy Check List—Revised." Alix tells the story of its creation and reports that the man who created the test, Bob Hare, is concerned at how it's being used today in the criminal justice system.

A lack of empathy by the guy designing the test, at the time I suppose?

[charlou]

If you have a spare hour, and are interested in this topic, this is interesting : http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... opath-test

NPR Science Correspondent Alix Spiegel tells the story of Robert Dixon, who's in a maximum security prison in Vacaville California and is unlikely to ever get parole because of his score on the psychopath test. The test also is called "the checklist" or, more formally, the PCL-R, which stands for "Psychopathy Check List—Revised." Alix tells the story of its creation and reports that the man who created the test, Bob Hare, is concerned at how it's being used today in the criminal justice system.

A lack of empathy by the guy designing the test, at the time I suppose?

You may have a better informed opinion on that after listening to the first half of the program.

[Atheist-Lite]

If you have a spare hour, and are interested in this topic, this is interesting : http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... opath-test

NPR Science Correspondent Alix Spiegel tells the story of Robert Dixon, who's in a maximum security prison in Vacaville California and is unlikely to ever get parole because of his score on the psychopath test. The test also is called "the checklist" or, more formally, the PCL-R, which stands for "Psychopathy Check List—Revised." Alix tells the story of its creation and reports that the man who created the test, Bob Hare, is concerned at how it's being used today in the criminal justice system.

A lack of empathy by the guy designing the test, at the time I suppose?

You may have a better informed opinion on that after listening to the first half of the program.

I listened to the first third. From what I recall reading on the web many of the successful sociopaths/psychopaths make it big in business and politics. There should be a rigorous screening test of somekind for those entering arenas which could put lives at risk? Consider the BP situation? Would that have occured had less risk taking individuals been in charge of decision making?

[charlou]

If you have a spare hour, and are interested in this topic, this is interesting : http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... opath-test

NPR Science Correspondent Alix Spiegel tells the story of Robert Dixon, who's in a maximum security prison in Vacaville California and is unlikely to ever get parole because of his score on the psychopath test. The test also is called "the checklist" or, more formally, the PCL-R, which stands for "Psychopathy Check List—Revised." Alix tells the story of its creation and reports that the man who created the test, Bob Hare, is concerned at how it's being used today in the criminal justice system.

A lack of empathy by the guy designing the test, at the time I suppose?

You may have a better informed opinion on that after listening to the first half of the program.

I listened to the first third. From what I recall reading on the web many of the successful sociopaths/psychopaths make it big in business and politics. There should be a rigorous screening test of somekind for those entering arenas which could put lives at risk? Consider the BP situation? Would that have occured had less risk taking individuals been in charge of decision making?

4% of the top positions in the US apparently, according to statistics based on the test, and referenced by the article. Interesting compared to an overall 1% of the general population, and 20% of prisoners.

[Atheist-Lite]

It's not the specific percentage but their leverage which is important. Whilst a criminal pyschopath might effect those directly around them, a politician can take a entire nation into war.

[charlou]

You enjoying that coffee?

[Atheist-Lite]

You enjoying that coffee?

It's early here. Without coffee I'd be asleep.

[Warren Dew]

This is a bad thing.

At the moment we judge people by what they do, not what they are.

This is just another step in changing how we think of crime and think of people. Right now people are presumed innocent . This research could change everyone into presumed guilty.

Well, everyone the psychologists think lack empathy, anyway - which would primarily be the people the psychologists lack empathy for.