lol @ American law enforcement

[MrJonno]

I've always thought the "cowardly Frenchman" stereotype is pretty silly, considering how rich of a military history they actually have. Hell, even in World War II, which is widely considered the source of the whole thing, the French Resistance was remarkably successful and the government's surrender was actually the only sensible option for a nation that still hadn't recovered from the last world war and only had one solid line of defense that had been compromised.

Well, the thing is that frome the 1860s to WWII, we seem to have fostered some generations of remarkably crappy officers and high command, in particular ones that were always thinking in terms of what happened in their youth even though war was evolving at a tremendous rate, and even when some arms of the military were actually assimilating those evolutions quite well...

We had better armament, and supposedly a perfectly organized and supplied military in 1870... that moron Bazaine still managed to get trapped in Sedan with our largest and best troop corps, and lost us the war by surrendering before a secondline could be set up.

Our high command was utterly unprepared for the trench war that WWI became, and wasted tens of thousands of lives (as well as millions worth of ammo) by misusing artillery strikes and ordering whole regiments to bayonet charge in the face of withering long range rifle and machinegun fire

Similarly, in WWII, they utterly trusted the Maginot line and did nothing to plug the gap when Hitler attacked Belgium, and while we had tanks that were as good as the >Germans', and some people who had good ideas as to the best way to use them, we just used them for infantry support... of course, that didn't work agains German advance tank columns.

Properly speaking, we had recovered a lot better than the Germans had, we just did not make good use of it.

French or British armies werent bad it was just a case the German army was a lot more professional ,better trained and had better tactices (not really better equipment until later in the war). This didnt really change throughout WW2 I'm not sure any German forces were defeated when the odds were even. Battle of Britian was more of a draw which was sufficient at the time to survive

[Wumbologist]

Our high command was utterly unprepared for the trench war that WWI became, and wasted tens of thousands of lives (as well as millions worth of ammo) by misusing artillery strikes and ordering whole regiments to bayonet charge in the face of withering long range rifle and machinegun fire

World War I caught everyone off guard. Nobody was truly prepared for it or really knew how to employ their newest, shiniest killing machines yet.

Similarly, in WWII, they utterly trusted the Maginot line and did nothing to plug the gap when Hitler attacked Belgium, and while we had tanks that were as good as the >Germans', and some people who had good ideas as to the best way to use them, we just used them for infantry support... of course, that didn't work agains German advance tank columns.

The Maginot line was a massive fuck-up, but that doesn't equal cowardice.

Properly speaking, we had recovered a lot better than the Germans had, we just did not make good use of it.

You hadn't been planning to take on the rest of the continent for years and gearing up accordingly.

[Svartalf]

Putting all your eggs in the same basket and not thinking that the foe might get smart/dishonorable enough to use the chinks in that armor may not be cowardlyh, but it's terminally stupid
Elastic defence, that was cowardly, as it entailed retreating without even doing a thing to slow down enemy advance.

[laklak]

I actually drove the route they supposedly took on Sunday, I was having brunch at the restaurant across the street from Gators. I can see how you could get confused. N. Orange Avenue is a commercial district for a couple of blocks north of Gators, then it turns residential, and isn't well lit at night. If they'd turned at 12th street they'd have run smack into the IHOP. Transposing numbers is common, I do it myself. Easy enough to get directions to "12th" and then turn on "21st", particularly if drunk. If they'd asked me for directions I'd have sent them east a couple of blocks to US 301, which is a brightly lit commercial road. However, 301 is torn up at the moment, they're widening it from 4 to 6 lanes and walking it would be a bit of a hassle. Torn up sidewalks, piles of dirt, etc. The next street you could take all the way up to 12th is N. Orange Ave.

As for buying drugs, if they wanted some smoke they could probably have scored at either Smokin Joes or Gators, particularly on a Friday night. Crank or crack might be a bit problematic, but there are plenty of stoners hanging around both bars.

[Warren Dew]

Well, the thing is that frome the 1860s to WWII, we seem to have fostered some generations of remarkably crappy officers and high command, in particular ones that were always thinking in terms of what happened in their youth even though war was evolving at a tremendous rate, and even when some arms of the military were actually assimilating those evolutions quite well...

One friend of mine theorizes that you executed all the competent officers in the revolution, and haven't managed to develop a competent officer corps since. I'm not sure how that fits in with the success of Napoleon, though.

[Coito ergo sum]

A funny anecdote: Apparently, General George Patton of the US fought in both WW1 and WW2 over in France. In WW1, Patton was in a village and the mayor of the village was deeply concerned with the supposed death of an American soldier their, and wanted to honor him as a national hero. Patton wasn't aware of any of his soldiers dying there, and asked to be shown the grave. The mayor showed the grave to Patton which showed a pile of dirt over what was once a hole and a cross in front of it with an inscription.

Apparently, nobody had died, and the hole was really a filled in latrine pit. The cross was just a sign that said "Abandoned Rear." Patton never told the mayor that it wasn't a dead soldier in there. When Patton returned to the town in WW2, he found the French village, revisited the places he visited in 1918, and found the village still guarding an honoring their hero, Abandoned Rear.

http://www.snopes.com/military/patton.asp

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, the thing is that frome the 1860s to WWII, we seem to have fostered some generations of remarkably crappy officers and high command, in particular ones that were always thinking in terms of what happened in their youth even though war was evolving at a tremendous rate, and even when some arms of the military were actually assimilating those evolutions quite well...

One friend of mine theorizes that you executed all the competent officers in the revolution, and haven't managed to develop a competent officer corps since. I'm not sure how that fits in with the success of Napoleon, though.

Maybe because he was Corsican he escaped the guillotine?

[Svartalf]

Not to mention the bunch of exceptional officers that emerged from the revolutionary wars and went on to become generals and marshals under napoleonic rule.
Given the way officers got their commands under the kings, odds are we executed a lot more nincompoops than we lost valuable commanders... it's not like Louis XV's officers had shown exceptional abilities if I judge by his military successes, and Louis XVI avoided major military involvement, as he tried to rebuild the economy after his two predecessors have bled the country drier than a rock.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think the reputation of cowardly probably comes chiefly from the 1940 Battle of France and the French complicity with Nazi Germany from 1940 to 1944.

Or, maybe it's google's fault:

[Warren Dew]

I think the reputation of cowardly probably comes chiefly from the 1940 Battle of France and the French complicity with Nazi Germany from 1940 to 1944.

Or, maybe it's google's fault:

The reason that page was funny was because the meme already existed.

I think it dates back to the Napoleonic wars. The French think of Napoleon as a military genius who conquered most of Europe. The British think of him as some guy who caused trouble on the continent but was defeated by Wellington.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think the reputation of cowardly probably comes chiefly from the 1940 Battle of France and the French complicity with Nazi Germany from 1940 to 1944.

Or, maybe it's google's fault:

The reason that page was funny was because the meme already existed.

I think it dates back to the Napoleonic wars. The French think of Napoleon as a military genius who conquered most of Europe. The British think of him as some guy who caused trouble on the continent but was defeated by Wellington.

I was trying to locate a pre-1940 reference to the French being cowardly, and I haven't been successful. Patton made the earliest reference I can find, "I'd rather have a German division in front of me, than a French one behind me." I'm not saying there can't be earlier references, just that I haven't found them.

[Warren Dew]

I was trying to locate a pre-1940 reference to the French being cowardly, and I haven't been successful.

Here's one from a 1903 book. It's only a semihistorical source, but it shows that the meme was already around:

http://books.google.com/books?id=GiweAA ... &q&f=false

I think in general the issue is military incompetence rather than cowardice, though.

[Coito ergo sum]

LOL - that author has an interesting story - he is possibly the only American convicted of murder to have a play produced on Broadway, he was arrested for having sent a bottle of poisoned Bromo‐Seltzer to the manager of the Knickerbocker Athletic Club after an argument.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/roland-bur ... z1Kjr16eLp

[Seth]

I think the reputation of cowardly probably comes chiefly from the 1940 Battle of France and the French complicity with Nazi Germany from 1940 to 1944.

Or, maybe it's google's fault:

The reason that page was funny was because the meme already existed.

I think it dates back to the Napoleonic wars. The French think of Napoleon as a military genius who conquered most of Europe. The British think of him as some guy who caused trouble on the continent but was defeated by Wellington.

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."

Ah...Agincourt! *Sigh*

[Svartalf]

Yeah, great thing to get pussy whipped by a virgin