The Almighty Unions

[Coito ergo sum]

[Warren Dew]

in America are so powerful they run the whole country

America is so weak that the unions are able to destroy it

I hearded it here.

Not all of America.

Just Detroit.

[Coito ergo sum]

[Seth]

The unions made a difference of about 50% in my old man's income. We'd have been living in a one bedroom how without the UAW. I know this because we were doing that before he got a job with GM.

And look what happened to GM as a result...it went bankrupt. There's a clue there for those with the wit to understand.

[Seth]

in America are so powerful they run the whole country

America is so weak that the unions are able to destroy it

I hearded it here.

I, for one, do not believe they wrecked America.

However, for example, Stephen Lerner, either a current or very recently former official with the SEIU union (one of the largest unions in the country) has openly called for steps to be taken to destabilize the banking system, hurt the stock market, and essentially destroy the financial system to obtain his group's desired political end.



That's not just his view. Listen to the applause and assent of the crowd listening to him. And, he's a not an irrelevant figure in the modern union movement. This is what a lot of them think.

And what Lerner is doing is defined by the FBI as "economic terrorism," it's a federal crime for which he and everybody else involved should be arrested and prosecuted, and it's arguable that it's treason as well, for which they should all be executed.

Now we see if the Department of Justice is utterly corrupt or whether the FBI will actually do it's job and start arresting the conspirators in this plot to overthrow the government.

[Seth]

Unionized Brothel

A dedicated union worker was attending a convention in Las Vegas
and, as you would expect, decided to check out the local brothels.
When he got to the first one, he asked the Madame, "Is this a union
house?"

"No," she replied, "I'm sorry it isn't."

"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"

"The house gets $80, and the girls get $20." Mightily offended at
such unfair dealings, the man stomped off in search of a more
equitable, hopefully unionized shop.

His search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the
Madame responded, "Why yes sir, this is a union house."

The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
The Madame replied' " the girls get $80, and the house gets $20."

"That's more like it!" the union man said. He looked around the room
and pointed to a stunning attractive blonde. "I'd like her for the
night."

"I'm sure you would sir," said the Madame, then, gesturing to an
obese seventy-five year old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has
seniority."

...and all she gives are hand-jobs. Union rules.

[Seth]

A CEO, a union worker and a Tea Partier (a member of the emerging right-wing political movement) are at a table with 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11 and says to the Tea Partier: "Keep an eye on that union guy, he wants your cookie."

thought this joke was appropriate...again.

The catch is that it wasn't a "union worker," it was a union boss, and he'd already tried to lay claim to all the cookies, which were products of the CEO's cookie factory that was built with his and his investor's money.

[.Morticia.]

Look, I'm a marxist and an atheist

I frolic with a man who is a million times the man you could ever be

a right wing man, a xian man

from a famous commie fighting family ( anti-stalinist, and I'm an anti-stalinist too )

and he knows all about me

we love each other to bits

Are you having a stroke yet? ....... lol

[JimC]

The problem isn't the existence of unions, its the loss of balance they achieved. $30-50 an hour plus benefits is a lot to pay for unskilled labor. The UAW pushed, and got good things for its members, but then they pushed too far and now look where they are.

Without unions, things would be very unbalanced indeed. The power of capital, and its understandable desire to drive wages and conditions as low as possible, means that individual workers have little chance to gain a fair share if they act alone. Collective, organised action by workers is vital; without it, capitalism would tend to become the total monster that sandinista thinks it is already...

[Warren Dew]

Without unions, things would be very unbalanced indeed. The power of capital, and its understandable desire to drive wages and conditions as low as possible, means that individual workers have little chance to gain a fair share if they act alone.

This must be why software engineers, who don't have unions, earn only minimum wage.

Oh wait, they make about the same as unionized auto workers! Guess you're mistaken.

[sandinista]

A CEO, a union worker and a Tea Partier (a member of the emerging right-wing political movement) are at a table with 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11 and says to the Tea Partier: "Keep an eye on that union guy, he wants your cookie."

thought this joke was appropriate...again.

The catch is that it wasn't a "union worker," it was a union boss, and he'd already tried to lay claim to all the cookies, which were products of the CEO's cookie factory that was built with his and his investor's money.

yah...inequality is a great thing isn't it. Oh, yah, you think it is. The CEO and his investors can make the cookies themselves too.

[.Morticia.]

money doesn't build things

people do

[JimC]

Without unions, things would be very unbalanced indeed. The power of capital, and its understandable desire to drive wages and conditions as low as possible, means that individual workers have little chance to gain a fair share if they act alone.

This must be why software engineers, who don't have unions, earn only minimum wage.

Oh wait, they make about the same as unionized auto workers! Guess you're mistaken.

Well, there is the factor of whether you have skills which are in demand, I agree. I didn't mean to imply the the degree of unionisation was the sole determinant of wage outcomes; other factors clearly operate.

What I am saying, however, that unions in general are vital to social justice in an industrial state, since they are often the sole means that workers have to protect them from the rapacious side of large scale capitalism.

An argument like this is a far cry from sandinista's uneqivocal rejection of capitalism. Both efficiency and innovation flow from free enterprise, but, without checks and balances, it can indeed cause a lot of grief to working people.

[Bolero]

I work in a highly unionised environment (tertiary education), and I'm very glad we have such a strong union. Without the union, we wouldn't have limits on contact hours, paid maternity leave, sick leave, decent pay rises, nondiscriminatory working conditions, paid overtime, paid marking, planning and course preparation, etc, etc, etc. The university hasn't just given us these things out of the goodness of their hearts - we had to fight for them tooth and nail.

If you think that means we're slack and not working hard, well, I obviously can't change your mind with one personal example. All I can do is say that in my experience - in education, at least - you're quite wrong. We work hard and get a great deal of job satisfaction - not to mention raking in the business for our institution due to the positive flow-on effects of our dedication to students. In my workplace, at least, the non-unionised workers are the ones who don't give a shit and don't put any effort into their work.

[JimC]

I work in a highly unionised environment (tertiary education), and I'm very glad we have such a strong union. Without the union, we wouldn't have limits on contact hours, paid maternity leave, sick leave, decent pay rises, nondiscriminatory working conditions, paid overtime, paid marking, planning and course preparation, etc, etc, etc. The university hasn't just given us these things out of the goodness of their hearts - we had to fight for them tooth and nail.

If you think that means we're slack and not working hard, well, I obviously can't change your mind with one personal example. All I can do is say that in my experience - in education, at least - you're quite wrong. We work hard and get a great deal of job satisfaction - not to mention raking in the business for our institution due to the positive flow-on effects of our dedication to students. In my workplace, at least, the non-unionised workers are the ones who don't give a shit and don't put any effort into their work.

Exactly the same experience for me in the secondary school sector. Our union works hard to negotiate reasonable pay and conditions, and the non-union people coast along on the backs of that effort...

However, if I have a serious dispute with my employer, my union will back me to the hilt, including some serious legal muscle if required...

Non-union staff in that situation are on their own, as they should be...