American religiousness

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charlou
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Re: American religiousness

Post by charlou » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:49 am

Thanks for posting ... definitely worth reading.

Most interesting (and unsurprising to me) is the discrepancy between numbers who claim to attend church, and actual numbers of bums on pews ... That is pretty indicative of the rationale behind peoples' claims about their religiosity ... that it's important to them for appearances sake ...

What I like about the "atheist movement" is that, among other things, it's forcing people to look more closely at the reality of trends and encouraging them to reevaluate the rationale behind their own thinking/behaviour. The findings reported in the article demonstrates this well.
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Re: American religiousness

Post by charlou » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:14 am

I'm splitting the education tangent to here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21649
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Re: American religiousness

Post by Bruce Burleson » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:59 am

Deersbee wrote:American religiousness is exceptional, obviously. At least one third of the population adheres to radical religions, say fundamentalists. Mind you, this is the world's greatest democracy and industrial motor we are talking about! Why is that?

Church attendance is apparently a question of identity, so much so that people prefer to at least report it even if they don't actually do it.

"In the United States, church attendance is obviously valued highly in most circles, and respondents may respond to questions about attendance in terms of their image of themselves as "good" people."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... what-we-do

Any thoughts? Americans, please share!
I'm a late-comer to this conversation, so forgive me if what I say has already been said. Religion is in the American DNA. There is a strong religious component that has been here from the beginning of our nation, when the Pilgrims came over from England to escape religious persecution. This is not to say that all people who came here were religious, but many of them were. There was an evangelistic fervor in early America due to the historical and cultural circumstances - a new land, populated by a "heathen" native group, and no religious authority to tell people what they had to believe. It was a perfect seed bed for Christian evangelism. And there have been numerous "awakenings" since that time, all based on the original religious meme that was introduced at the beginning.

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Re: American religiousness

Post by JimC » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:58 am

Anthroban wrote:

And which evolutionary theory would that be Mr. Amonious Seque? Group selection? Nature - Red, tooth and claw? Punctuated equilibrium? ... Need I go on?
No modern biologist worthy of the name will dispute the basics of evolution, that the present array of organisms we see is part of a connected tree of life, and is the result of descent with modification. The vast majority will agree that natural selection is one of the major mechanisms responsible, along with genetic drift and the influence of biogeography. The fact that there are arguments about the relative importance of various mechanisms of evolutionary change is not a weakness, but a sign of a science full of healthy internal debate.

If your point is to suggest that the apparent in-fighting can and has been used by opponents as ammunition to attack evolution, you are of course correct. But who cares what a bunch of morons and hucksters think? If people are fooled, fuck 'em...
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Re: American religiousness

Post by charlou » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:01 am

JimC wrote:
Anthroban wrote:

And which evolutionary theory would that be Mr. Amonious Seque? Group selection? Nature - Red, tooth and claw? Punctuated equilibrium? ... Need I go on?
No modern biologist worthy of the name will dispute the basics of evolution, that the present array of organisms we see is part of a connected tree of life, and is the result of descent with modification. The vast majority will agree that natural selection is one of the major mechanisms responsible, along with genetic drift and the influence of biogeography. The fact that there are arguments about the relative importance of various mechanisms of evolutionary change is not a weakness, but a sign of a science full of healthy internal debate.

If your point is to suggest that the apparent in-fighting can and has been used by opponents as ammunition to attack evolution, you are of course correct. But who cares what a bunch of morons and hucksters think? If people are fooled, fuck 'em...
Thank you. You put that better than I could.
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Re: American religiousness

Post by DRSB » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:10 am

Bruce Burleson wrote:
Deersbee wrote:American religiousness is exceptional, obviously. At least one third of the population adheres to radical religions, say fundamentalists. Mind you, this is the world's greatest democracy and industrial motor we are talking about! Why is that?

Church attendance is apparently a question of identity, so much so that people prefer to at least report it even if they don't actually do it.

"In the United States, church attendance is obviously valued highly in most circles, and respondents may respond to questions about attendance in terms of their image of themselves as "good" people."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... what-we-do

Any thoughts? Americans, please share!
I'm a late-comer to this conversation, so forgive me if what I say has already been said. Religion is in the American DNA. There is a strong religious component that has been here from the beginning of our nation, when the Pilgrims came over from England to escape religious persecution. This is not to say that all people who came here were religious, but many of them were. There was an evangelistic fervor in early America due to the historical and cultural circumstances - a new land, populated by a "heathen" native group, and no religious authority to tell people what they had to believe. It was a perfect seed bed for Christian evangelism. And there have been numerous "awakenings" since that time, all based on the original religious meme that was introduced at the beginning.
Thank you for your feedback! It is baffling how nothing, not industrialization and modernization and not scientific progress can affect that!

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Re: American religiousness

Post by FBM » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:22 am

Deersbee wrote:...It is baffling how nothing, not industrialization and modernization and not scientific progress can affect that!
We're chipping away at it! From 'zilla's linked article:
And a total of 16% of Americans accept real evolution—purposeless and unguided by God. That’s up from 9% in 1982, and may be a real trend.
A 7% improvement in 18 years isn't much, but it's something, eh? :pardon:
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Re: American religiousness

Post by DRSB » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:44 am

Turns out Merka is not only the morst religious country, but the most hypomanic as well, is there possibly a connection in the sense that the US draw zealots of all kinds.

"America has the highest rates of bipolar disorder according to an eleven-nation NIMH study published in this month's Archives of General Psychiatry.
America had the highest rates at all levels of the bipolar spectrum: Bipolar type I (1.0%), type II (1.1%), and subclinical bipolar traits (2.4%), with a total of 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum, almost double the international average of 2.4%. The next closest nation was New Zealand, the only other nation in the sample that was predominantly populated by immigrants."

Full article "Hypomanic Nation" here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... nic-nation

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Re: American religiousness

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:46 am

I blame Columbus.
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Re: American religiousness

Post by DRSB » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:48 am

Gawdzilla wrote:I blame Columbus.
Why do you blame him? What did he discover? People had been there for thousands of years.

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Re: American religiousness

Post by Azathoth » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:50 am

Deersbee wrote:Turns out Merka is not only the morst religious country, but the most hypomanic as well, is there possibly a connection in the sense that the US draw zealots of all kinds.

"America has the highest rates of bipolar disorder according to an eleven-nation NIMH study published in this month's Archives of General Psychiatry.
America had the highest rates at all levels of the bipolar spectrum: Bipolar type I (1.0%), type II (1.1%), and subclinical bipolar traits (2.4%), with a total of 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum, almost double the international average of 2.4%. The next closest nation was New Zealand, the only other nation in the sample that was predominantly populated by immigrants."

Full article "Hypomanic Nation" here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... nic-nation
Bipolar disorder is a very fashionable diagnosis at the moment. I think a lot of those numbers come from lazy doctors just flinging antidepressants round to clear their waiting rooms
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Re: American religiousness

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:53 am

Deersbee wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:I blame Columbus.
Why do you blame him? What did he discover? People had been there for thousands of years.
You mentioned immigrants?

(BTW, I've been to Clovis, NM.)
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Re: American religiousness

Post by Hermit » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:15 am

Deersbee wrote:Turns out Merka is not only the morst religious country, but the most hypomanic as well, is there possibly a connection in the sense that the US draw zealots of all kinds.

"America has the highest rates of bipolar disorder according to an eleven-nation NIMH study published in this month's Archives of General Psychiatry.
America had the highest rates at all levels of the bipolar spectrum: Bipolar type I (1.0%), type II (1.1%), and subclinical bipolar traits (2.4%), with a total of 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum, almost double the international average of 2.4%. The next closest nation was New Zealand, the only other nation in the sample that was predominantly populated by immigrants."

Full article "Hypomanic Nation" here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... nic-nation
If there is a connection between bipolar disorders and zealotry, one would think there'd be some information available. Also, I wonder how the 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum could account for the incidence of religiosity among the majority of the 95.6% of Americans who are not bipolar.
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Re: American religiousness

Post by DRSB » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:22 pm

Seraph wrote:
Deersbee wrote:Turns out Merka is not only the morst religious country, but the most hypomanic as well, is there possibly a connection in the sense that the US draw zealots of all kinds.

"America has the highest rates of bipolar disorder according to an eleven-nation NIMH study published in this month's Archives of General Psychiatry.
America had the highest rates at all levels of the bipolar spectrum: Bipolar type I (1.0%), type II (1.1%), and subclinical bipolar traits (2.4%), with a total of 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum, almost double the international average of 2.4%. The next closest nation was New Zealand, the only other nation in the sample that was predominantly populated by immigrants."

Full article "Hypomanic Nation" here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... nic-nation
If there is a connection between bipolar disorders and zealotry, one would think there'd be some information available. Also, I wonder how the 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum could account for the incidence of religiosity among the majority of the 95.6% of Americans who are not bipolar.
I don't see why Americans should be more bipolar, or more religious for that matter, than any other nation.

Zealotry can manifest itself in any kind of fervour, not only religious. Bipolar is the new name for manic-depressive; "manic" on the other hand is akin to "driven", which in itself is celebrated in US and glorified in the concept of the "American dream". That's why I sought to make a connection, just thoughts.

Still trying to account for the American religiousness.

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Re: American religiousness

Post by JOZeldenrust » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:24 pm

Deersbee wrote:
Seraph wrote:
Deersbee wrote:Turns out Merka is not only the morst religious country, but the most hypomanic as well, is there possibly a connection in the sense that the US draw zealots of all kinds.

"America has the highest rates of bipolar disorder according to an eleven-nation NIMH study published in this month's Archives of General Psychiatry.
America had the highest rates at all levels of the bipolar spectrum: Bipolar type I (1.0%), type II (1.1%), and subclinical bipolar traits (2.4%), with a total of 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum, almost double the international average of 2.4%. The next closest nation was New Zealand, the only other nation in the sample that was predominantly populated by immigrants."

Full article "Hypomanic Nation" here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... nic-nation
If there is a connection between bipolar disorders and zealotry, one would think there'd be some information available. Also, I wonder how the 4.4% of Americans falling somewhere in the bipolar spectrum could account for the incidence of religiosity among the majority of the 95.6% of Americans who are not bipolar.
I don't see why Americans should be more bipolar, or more religious for that matter, than any other nation.

Zealotry can manifest itself in any kind of fervour, not only religious. Bipolar is the new name for manic-depressive; "manic" on the other hand is akin to "driven", which in itself is celebrated in US and glorified in the concept of the "American dream". That's why I sought to make a connection, just thoughts.

Still trying to account for the American religiousness.
I think the prevalence of bipolar disorder in the US might just be due to therapy being more common in the US then in other countries. If you go to a shrink, you're going to get diagnosed with something. The fact that you went to see a shrink means you're experiencing problems with something, which makes whatever you have a disorder. In countries where the threshold to seek psychological or psychiatric help is higher, people with exactly the same conditions might never visis a shrink and stay below radar.

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