The Political Brain

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.Morticia.
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The Political Brain

Post by .Morticia. » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:56 am

A great book.

I completely agree with teh premise and have often wondered where the idea that arguing with facts is effective came from. I think from marxian scientism.

Anyway, the facsists and the capitalists and the right argue with emotion, hell, their arguments are usually steaming piles of tripe uttered with such complete confidence as to overwhelm the senses and then they heap on personal abuse and logical fallacies to boot.

But there is always a kernal of truth in there, an emotional truth that appeals to the desires and weaknesses of the masses.

Anyway, I see no reason why debate and polemic from the left should follow "rules' of their own devise when those rules are ineffective.

And when a left person acts like the right, OH the SHOCK HORROR.

" You are better than that." " It's dishonest" It's unethical" ( it's only unethical if you use big fat lies like glenn beck or hannity, or government, or reactionaries ) etc etc

Listen buds, it's politics, not a garden party.

So here's that book. It's quite liberating.
http://thepoliticalbrain.com/videos.php

This groundbreaking investigation by a renowned psychologist and neuroscientist proves it: We vote with our hearts, not our minds

The Political Brain is a groundbreaking investigation into the role of emotion in determining the political life of the nation. For two decades Drew Westen, professor of psychology and psychiatry at Emory University, has explored a theory of the mind that differs substantially from the more "dispassionate" notions held by most cognitive psychologists, political scientists, and economists—and Democratic campaign strategists. The idea of the mind as a cool calculator that makes decisions by weighing the evidence bears no relation to how the brain actually works. When political candidates assume voters dispassionately make decisions based on "the issues," they lose. That's why only one Democrat has been re-elected to the presidency since Franklin Roosevelt—and only one Republican has failed in that quest.
In politics, when reason and emotion collide, emotion invariably wins. Elections are decided in the marketplace of emotions, a marketplace filled with values, images, analogies, moral sentiments, and moving oratory, in which logic plays only a supporting role. Westen shows, through a whistle-stop journey through the evolution of the passionate brain and a bravura tour through fifty years of American presidential and national elections, why campaigns succeed and fail. The evidence is overwhelming that three things determine how people vote, in this order: their feelings toward the parties and their principles, their feelings toward the candidates, and, if they haven't decided by then, their feelings toward the candidates' policy positions.

Westen turns conventional political analyses on their head, suggesting that the question for Democratic politics isn't so much about moving to the right or the left but about moving the electorate. He shows how it can be done through examples of what candidates have said—or could have said—in debates, speeches, and ads. Westen's discoveries could utterly transform electoral arithmetic, showing how a different view of the mind and brain leads to a different way of talking with voters about issues that have tied the tongues of Democrats for much of forty years—such as abortion, guns, taxes, and race. You can't change the structure of the brain. But you can change the way you appeal to it. And here's how…

Drew Westen received his B.A. at Harvard, an M.A. in Social and Political Thought at the University of Sussex (England), and his Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology at the University of Michigan, where he subsequently taught for six years. For several years he was Chief Psychologist at Cambridge Hospital and Associate Professor at Harvard Medical School. He is a commentator on NPR's "All Things Considered" and lives in Atlanta.





Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. ~ Marx

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by Ian » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:08 am

.Morticia. wrote: Anyway, the facsists and the capitalists and the right argue with emotion, hell, their arguments are usually steaming piles of tripe uttered with such complete confidence as to overwhelm the senses and then they heap on personal abuse and logical fallacies to boot.
I see quite a few leftists argue the same way - the above sentence seems to be describing itself!

Sounds like a fascinating book though.

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by .Morticia. » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:22 am

Ian wrote:
.Morticia. wrote: Anyway, the facsists and the capitalists and the right argue with emotion, hell, their arguments are usually steaming piles of tripe uttered with such complete confidence as to overwhelm the senses and then they heap on personal abuse and logical fallacies to boot.
I see quite a few leftists argue the same way - the above sentence seems to be describing itself!

Sounds like a fascinating book though.
oh I have heard crap from leftists as well, but not when discussing policy or political theory or social theory, then they expect their utter brialliance at facts to win people over. It's mainly all the other stuff around it they say that is big steaming piles.

It's usually personality coming through and I've become big believer in personality being one of the most important things in politics.

I've encountered terrible sexism, ( nooo, they didn't hate me for me, it was sexism ) , narcissism and identity politics. All things you don;t expect from the mouths of self avowed marxists.

It's personality dudes, it comes down to personailty.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. ~ Marx

Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to. ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by Seth » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:53 pm

Ian wrote:
.Morticia. wrote: Anyway, the facsists and the capitalists and the right argue with emotion, hell, their arguments are usually steaming piles of tripe uttered with such complete confidence as to overwhelm the senses and then they heap on personal abuse and logical fallacies to boot.
I see quite a few leftists argue the same way - the above sentence seems to be describing itself!

Sounds like a fascinating book though.
Sounds like a re-hash of Edward Bernays and his theories of propaganda to me. It's not like this is new territory at all. Propagandists from Bernays to Goebbles to Madison Avenue are well aware of the techniques of appealing to base emotions like sex, security, fear and suchlike, in order to sway people's opinions and actions.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by .Morticia. » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:32 am

Seth wrote:
Ian wrote:
.Morticia. wrote: Anyway, the facsists and the capitalists and the right argue with emotion, hell, their arguments are usually steaming piles of tripe uttered with such complete confidence as to overwhelm the senses and then they heap on personal abuse and logical fallacies to boot.
I see quite a few leftists argue the same way - the above sentence seems to be describing itself!

Sounds like a fascinating book though.
Sounds like a re-hash of Edward Bernays and his theories of propaganda to me. It's not like this is new territory at all. Propagandists from Bernays to Goebbles to Madison Avenue are well aware of the techniques of appealing to base emotions like sex, security, fear and suchlike, in order to sway people's opinions and actions.

You obviously don't understand how deeply the belief in scientism and appeals to fact is for the left, and to a certain extent the dems.

This is NEW territory for them.

I don't know why. Maybe the left has more respect for people's intelligence than the right.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. ~ Marx

Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to. ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by Seth » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:35 am

.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
Ian wrote:
.Morticia. wrote: Anyway, the facsists and the capitalists and the right argue with emotion, hell, their arguments are usually steaming piles of tripe uttered with such complete confidence as to overwhelm the senses and then they heap on personal abuse and logical fallacies to boot.
I see quite a few leftists argue the same way - the above sentence seems to be describing itself!

Sounds like a fascinating book though.
Sounds like a re-hash of Edward Bernays and his theories of propaganda to me. It's not like this is new territory at all. Propagandists from Bernays to Goebbles to Madison Avenue are well aware of the techniques of appealing to base emotions like sex, security, fear and suchlike, in order to sway people's opinions and actions.

You obviously don't understand how deeply the belief in scientism and appeals to fact is for the left, and to a certain extent the dems.

This is NEW territory for them.

I don't know why. Maybe the left has more respect for people's intelligence than the right.
Strange assertion, given the fact that the Progressives have been well aware of the principles and have been applying them for nearly a century. How do you think that lying, duplicitous, Marxist Progressive Barack Obama got elected?
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by .Morticia. » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:50 am

I really take offence at that

he's NOT a marxist you dick

and yes, rahm and that other dickhead, wright, aren't marxists either

met and heard 'em talk

They are the worst weasel politicians who believe in nothing I've heard in ages. :|~
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. ~ Marx

Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to. ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by Seth » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:55 am

.Morticia. wrote:he's NOT a marxist you dick
Yes, he is. He's a cunning crypto-Marxist who was raised by Marxists, who was influenced by Marxists, who was educated by Marxists, who spouted Marxist rhetoric in college, who admitted to seeking out and associating with Marxists in college, who surrounded himself at the White House with Marxists, and who has been following the Progressive version of Marxism for a long, long time.

And he's a pathological liar too...
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by .Morticia. » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:04 am

Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:he's NOT a marxist you dick
Yes, he is. He's a cunning crypto-Marxist who was raised by Marxists, who was influenced by Marxists, who was educated by Marxists, who spouted Marxist rhetoric in college, who admitted to seeking out and associating with Marxists in college, who surrounded himself at the White House with Marxists, and who has been following the Progressive version of Marxism for a long, long time.

And he's a pathological liar too...

well, he's hidden it well because all his policies are imperialist neo-liberal in nature
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. ~ Marx

Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to. ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by Seth » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:58 am

.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:he's NOT a marxist you dick
Yes, he is. He's a cunning crypto-Marxist who was raised by Marxists, who was influenced by Marxists, who was educated by Marxists, who spouted Marxist rhetoric in college, who admitted to seeking out and associating with Marxists in college, who surrounded himself at the White House with Marxists, and who has been following the Progressive version of Marxism for a long, long time.

And he's a pathological liar too...

well, he's hidden it well because all his policies are imperialist neo-liberal in nature
Hardly. But he does have to tread carefully lest he transgress too far and get his head handed to him. But his policies move the Progressive agenda far, far down the road. Fortunately, it looks like the public is waking up to his shenanigans and is preparing to repeal it all, and defund it in the meantime. He may have overplayed his hand with health care.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: The Political Brain

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:37 am

.Morticia. wrote:he's NOT a marxist you dick
Kindly remember that we have a rule here about personal attacks - which applies especially in heated debates. Kindly stick to attacking the statements made by the person and give the person themselves the benefit of the doubt that he might consist of more than simply an isolated penis - I thank you. :tiphat:
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Re: The Political Brain

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:11 am

.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:he's NOT a marxist you dick
Yes, he is. He's a cunning crypto-Marxist who was raised by Marxists, who was influenced by Marxists, who was educated by Marxists, who spouted Marxist rhetoric in college, who admitted to seeking out and associating with Marxists in college, who surrounded himself at the White House with Marxists, and who has been following the Progressive version of Marxism for a long, long time.

And he's a pathological liar too...

well, he's hidden it well because all his policies are imperialist neo-liberal in nature
Fucking oath! It's just inanity of the highest order to suggest that BO is a marxist. Any experience with the rest of the world would leave one in no doubt how much of a right-winger BO is.
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Re: The Political Brain

Post by AnInconvenientScotsman » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:14 pm

All American politicians tend to be on the Right compared to most of the world - calling Democrats leftists in any sense of the term is an insult
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Re: The Political Brain

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:47 pm

Yep.

Oh, look what the evil socialist is up to now. :lay:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/1 ... 22689.html
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama, less than two months after signing tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans into law, is proposing a budget to congress that attacks programs that assist the working poor, help the needy heat their homes, expand access to graduate-level education and undermine that type of community-based organizations that gave the president his start in Chicago.

Obama's new budget puts forward a plan to achieve $1.1 trillion in deficit reductions over the next decade, according to an administration official who spoke to the Associated Press on condition of anonymity in advance of the formal release of the budget.

Those reductions -- averaging just over $100 billion each year -- are achieved mainly by squeezing social programs. A deal struck to extend the Bush tax cuts for just two years, meanwhile, increased the deficit by $858 billion dollars. More than $500 billion of that bargain constituted tax cuts, with billions more funding business tax breaks and a reduction in the estate tax. Roughly $56 billion went to reauthorize emergency unemployment benefits.
CONTINUED
What a commie...
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Re: The Political Brain

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:58 pm

.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
Ian wrote:
.Morticia. wrote: Anyway, the facsists and the capitalists and the right argue with emotion, hell, their arguments are usually steaming piles of tripe uttered with such complete confidence as to overwhelm the senses and then they heap on personal abuse and logical fallacies to boot.
I see quite a few leftists argue the same way - the above sentence seems to be describing itself!

Sounds like a fascinating book though.
Sounds like a re-hash of Edward Bernays and his theories of propaganda to me. It's not like this is new territory at all. Propagandists from Bernays to Goebbles to Madison Avenue are well aware of the techniques of appealing to base emotions like sex, security, fear and suchlike, in order to sway people's opinions and actions.

You obviously don't understand how deeply the belief in scientism and appeals to fact is for the left, and to a certain extent the dems.

This is NEW territory for them.

I don't know why. Maybe the left has more respect for people's intelligence than the right.
I think some folks confuse the Left and the Right with the extremes of either side. It's not correct to lump "fascists" in with "capitalists," or "liberals" in with "communists." It confuses and muddles the issue.

American liberals - the large majority of the "left" in the US - have argued from emotion for as long as I can remember. If you're claiming that somehow the great mass of those on the left in this country are arguing from "facts" and "science" - you're going to have to prove that. Generally, I have found that those on the "right" - those that are more business oriented, argue from cold facts, and the term "bleeding heart liberal" didn't just come out of nowhere.

What happened in the last 25 years, however, is that the "right" has been coopted in part by the "religious" right, and now much of the argument from the right is not from "facts" but from dogma. In many ways that's worse than arguing from the emotion of a bleeding heart.

And, most liberal left folks - they talk of a lack of "compassion" on the part of the right - they talk of "care" and "concern" r - and they use words against their opposition like "selfish" and "greedy" and "evil." These are emotion words.

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