A secular debate about eating meat.

[Gallstones]

How is accidentally killed more humane that intentionally killed?

[sandinista]

How is accidentally killed more humane that intentionally killed?

...because it was an "accident"...the same difference between murder and an...well...accident.

[Gallstones]

There's no reason why most of us can't go veggie already, dj - except that we like eating meat, and are used to it, and it's easy and convenient…

It was less than 100 years ago that we moved from more natural methods of farming meat and dairy to factory farming. Now, factory farmed meat and dairy comprises 99% of all products on the grocery shelves. I realize it's more expensive, but if everybody made a point of trying to purchase more of these products from sources that pasture their animals we can be much much more humane about how we farm animals than we are now. You don't have to stop eating meat all together, just reduce, or stop eating meat from factory farmed sources and create the demand for the humane sources.

I see what you're saying, and I do agree that the less meat an individual eats the better, but, there is no such thing as "humane meat", simply does not exist.

Well yes it does , just not commercially .

well, actually no it doesn't. Unless your talking about soy based fake "meat" products, but they are produced commercially. Unless the animal is killed because of old age or illness there is nothing "humane" about slaughtering a healthy animal.

Animals dying of natural causes like illness is not dying humanely and may not be safe to eat.

Animals can be raised and/or slaughtered humanely; it is a matter of husbandry practices, not the killing of them.

Everything is going to die. In nature death is not usually devoid of suffering of some type. Humans are part of nature, eating is natural, even killing is natural. It is more humane to be dispatched by a bullet to the brain or heart than to be brought down by wolves.

[JimC]

There's no debate.

Some of us like eating meat.

Some don't.

End of story.

[Gallstones]

How is accidentally killed more humane that intentionally killed?

...because it was an "accident"...the same difference between murder and an...well...accident.

Accident means diddly squat.
Have you never witnessed an animal flopping on the pavement after being run over, or languishing at the side of the road unable to move after having been hit? It does not make it humane because it was unintended, it can make things worse because it is inefficient.

[sandinista]

Animals dying of natural causes like illness is not dying humanely and may not be safe to eat.

Animals can be raised and/or slaughtered humanely; it is a matter of husbandry practices, not the killing of them.

Everything is going to die. In nature death is not usually devoid of suffering of some type. Humans are part of nature, eating is natural, even killing is natural. It is more humane to be dispatched by a bullet to the brain or heart than to be brought down by wolves.

Everything is going to die. Killing is natural...OK, so I can go kill someone with no moral qualms. OK You can't slaughter an animal humanly, can't be done. You also cannot murder a person humanly, can't be done. Yes, you can raise animals humanly.

There's no debate.

Some of us like eating meat.

Some don't.

End of story.

There is no debate about whether some people eat or don't eat meat, there is, however many debates as to the ethics of eating meat. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with someone saying "Yah fucking bacon!!" or whatever, or just stating that, "I eat meat because I like it". I just have a problem with people who try, for some reason, to convince themselves that eating a slaughtered animal is "humane" in any sense at all. It's simply not.

[Gallstones]

Animals dying of natural causes like illness is not dying humanely and may not be safe to eat.

Animals can be raised and/or slaughtered humanely; it is a matter of husbandry practices, not the killing of them.

Everything is going to die. In nature death is not usually devoid of suffering of some type. Humans are part of nature, eating is natural, even killing is natural. It is more humane to be dispatched by a bullet to the brain or heart than to be brought down by wolves.

Everything is going to die. Killing is natural...OK, so I can go kill someone with no moral qualms. OK You can't slaughter an animal humanly, can't be done. You also cannot murder a person humanly, can't be done. Yes, you can raise animals humanly.

Yes you can. An animal, if handled properly, doesn't even know it is about to die. Remove all the triggers to fear and it is humane. You are anthropomorphizing. Just because you are aware of death does not mean that an animal is aware of it or fears it.

If I was to be going about my normal business, say walking in the park, and a sniper was to shoot me dead via a bullet in the head; it would be humane because I would have no knowledge of the sniper, his/her intentions and I would be dead before I had a chance to realize I had been shot.

[Gallstones]

There is no debate about whether some people eat or don't eat meat, there is, however many debates as to the ethics of eating meat. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with someone saying "Yah fucking bacon!!" or whatever, or just stating that, "I eat meat because I like it". I just have a problem with people who try, for some reason, to convince themselves that eating a slaughtered animal is "humane" in any sense at all. It's simply not.

It is more humane to eat a slaughtered--AKA dead--animal than a live one.

[JimC]

There is no debate about whether some people eat or don't eat meat, there is, however many debates as to the ethics of eating meat. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with someone saying "Yah fucking bacon!!" or whatever, or just stating that, "I eat meat because I like it". I just have a problem with people who try, for some reason, to convince themselves that eating a slaughtered animal is "humane" in any sense at all. It's simply not.

It is more humane to eat a slaughtered--AKA dead--animal than a live one.

Am I an evil human being because I enjoy eating live oysters?

sandinista wrote:

I just have a problem with people who try, for some reason, to convince themselves that eating a slaughtered animal is "humane" in any sense at all. It's simply not.

A very absolutist statement... It is certainly possible to slaughter animals for food in a more humane, or less humane way. It is also possible for meat animals to be raised in a more or less benign environment. As far as possible, as a meat consumer, I will choose the relatively humane styles of lifetstock raising and slaughtering.

[sandinista]

Animals dying of natural causes like illness is not dying humanely and may not be safe to eat.

Animals can be raised and/or slaughtered humanely; it is a matter of husbandry practices, not the killing of them.

Everything is going to die. In nature death is not usually devoid of suffering of some type. Humans are part of nature, eating is natural, even killing is natural. It is more humane to be dispatched by a bullet to the brain or heart than to be brought down by wolves.

Everything is going to die. Killing is natural...OK, so I can go kill someone with no moral qualms. OK You can't slaughter an animal humanly, can't be done. You also cannot murder a person humanly, can't be done. Yes, you can raise animals humanly.

Yes you can. An animal, if handled properly, doesn't even know it is about to die. Remove all the triggers to fear and it is humane. You are anthropomorphizing. Just because you are aware of death does not mean that an animal is aware of it or fears it.

If I was to be going about my normal business, say walking in the park, and a sniper was to shoot me dead via a bullet in the head; it would be humane because I would have no knowledge of the sniper, his/her intentions and I would be dead before I had a chance to realize I had been shot.

You have proof that a cow/pig/dog does not know it's going to die? I have seen many many animals show fear and behavior that would suggest otherwise. With "the sniper" does that mean it is "humane" to kill someone as long as they don't see it coming? I wouldn't call that "humane".

There is no debate about whether some people eat or don't eat meat, there is, however many debates as to the ethics of eating meat. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with someone saying "Yah fucking bacon!!" or whatever, or just stating that, "I eat meat because I like it". I just have a problem with people who try, for some reason, to convince themselves that eating a slaughtered animal is "humane" in any sense at all. It's simply not.

It is more humane to eat a slaughtered--AKA dead--animal than a live one.

Am I an evil human being because I enjoy eating live oysters?

sandinista wrote:

I just have a problem with people who try, for some reason, to convince themselves that eating a slaughtered animal is "humane" in any sense at all. It's simply not.

A very absolutist statement... It is certainly possible to slaughter animals for food in a more humane, or less humane way. It is also possible for meat animals to be raised in a more or less benign environment. As far as possible, as a meat consumer, I will choose the relatively humane styles of lifetstock raising and slaughtering.

Are you "evil"...not for me to say. I could care less what you do. What is wrong with absolutism? Are you saying there are NO absolute statements or simply that it is your opinion that this is not one of them? Yes, you can slaughter/kill more or less "humanly' and yes, it is better to consume anything other than factory farmed meat, but that still doens't equate to "humane" meat. You are correct in saying "relatively humane styles of lifetstock raising and slaughtering.".

[Feck]

You have proof that a cow/pig/dog does not know it's going to die? I have seen many many animals show fear and behavior that would suggest otherwise. With "the sniper" does that mean it is "humane" to kill someone as long as they don't see it coming? I wouldn't call that "humane". .

You see I would . I'm concerned about pain and suffering not so much about death . Some people may want to live to a ripe old age and die in bed surrounded by their grandchildren but I don't care and I don't think that happens to many animals . If somebody goes postal and splashes my brains across the landscape with a .270 I would consider my death to be humane .

[JimC]

You have proof that a cow/pig/dog does not know it's going to die? I have seen many many animals show fear and behavior that would suggest otherwise. With "the sniper" does that mean it is "humane" to kill someone as long as they don't see it coming? I wouldn't call that "humane". .

You see I would . I'm concerned about pain and suffering not so much about death . Some people may want to live to a ripe old age and die in bed surrounded by their grandchildren but I don't care and I don't think that happens to many animals . If somebody goes postal and splashes my brains across the landscape with a .270 I would consider my death to be humane .

Very much agree - minimising pain and suffering is what it's all about...

I hunted many a rabbit, and took pains to take a head shot; instant death...

[Robert_S]

If I'm about to be taken down by a pack of leopards and you have a gun with one bullet; head shot plz!

Nature is not humane. That's why we use the root "human" for the word.

[Svartalf]

It's not tasty, it's fucking nomalicious .

Worse than that, our digestive system is geared to eating meat... until we can gengineer ourselves into a fully vegetarian species, not eating meat is terminally suboptimal and stupid

[Svartalf]

I like eating meat and my body's designed to run on it as part of a balanced diet.

The meat industry is a totally different issue. Morally, it's easy to argue against its' very existence. On the other hand, could individuals within society function if they had to hunt or keep their own animals for food?

hmm funny, I don't like eating meat and my body is not designed to run on it as a part of a balanced diet.

Actually, it is. an examination of the human digestive tract shows that it's much closer to that of a carnivore than to that of a true herbivore, and balancing a diet without animal based products implies much more effort and care than just slapping some meat and cheese to go with the bread and veg.