Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

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Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by klr » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:30 am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fro ... 99892.html
Crime of blasphemous libel proposed for Defamation Bill

A NEW crime of blasphemous libel is to be proposed by the Minister for Justice in an amendment to the Defamation Bill, which will be discussed by the Oireachtas committee on justice today.

At the moment there is no crime of blasphemy on the statute books, though it is prohibited by the Constitution.

Article 40 of the Constitution, guaranteeing freedom of speech, qualifies it by stating: “The State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.

“The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent material is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.”

Last year the Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution, under the chairmanship of Fianna Fáil TD Seán Ardagh, recommended amending this Article to remove all references to sedition and blasphemy, and redrafting the Article along the lines of article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which deals with freedom of expression.

The prohibition on blasphemy dates back to English law aimed at protecting the established church, the Church of England, from attack. It has been used relatively recently to prosecute satirical publications in the UK.

In the only Irish case taken under this article, Corway -v- Independent Newspapers, in 1999, the Supreme Court concluded that it was impossible to say “of what the offence of blasphemy consists”.

It also stated that a special protection for Christianity was incompatible with the religious equality provisions of Article 44.

Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern proposes to insert a new section into the Defamation Bill, stating: “A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €100,000.”

“Blasphemous matter” is defined as matter “that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.”

Where a person is convicted of an offence under this section, the court may issue a warrant authorising the Garda Síochána to enter, if necessary using reasonable force, a premises where the member of the force has reasonable grounds for believing there are copies of the blasphemous statements in order to seize them.

Labour spokesman on justice Pat Rabbitte is proposing an amendment to this section which would reduce the maximum fine to €1,000 and exclude from the definition of blasphemy any matter that had any literary, artistic, social or academic merit.
http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/2009/ ... libel-law/
Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

The government of Ireland is to decide whether or not to step back a couple of centuries by putting a blasphemy law on its statute books.

The extraordinary move is proposed by the Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern, who want to insert a blasphemy clause into the revised Defamation Bill, stating:

A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €100,000.

“Blasphemous matter” is defined as matter

that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.

“Any religion”? That would include Scientology, Satanism, Jedi, and the one I just made up? Even if it does, the law neglects an important fact: adults are responsible for their own outrage. All it would take to get a conviction under this law is for an unspecified “substantial number” to claim outrage against their undefined “religion”. Hey presto - deference guaranteed.

Blasphemy is already forbidden by the Irish constitution, but it remains harmless there as a 1999 court case ruled that it was impossible to say “of what the offence of blasphemy consists”. But a new law on the statute books could have a serious effect of freedom of expression.

The Irish Times clarifies what it means in practical terms:

Where a person is convicted of an offence under this section, the court may issue a warrant authorising the Garda Síochána to enter, if necessary using reasonable force, a premises where the member of the force has reasonable grounds for believing there are copies of the blasphemous statements in order to seize them.

Labour spokesman on justice Pat Rabbitte is proposing that the fine be reduced to 1,000 euros and exclude matter of artistic merit. Not good enough.

Is Ireland applying for membership of the OIC?
:nono:
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Animavore » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:34 am

Meh.


Not going to happen.
(although I hope it does 'cause I'm itching for a cause to fight for, I should've been born in 1886 and been running shit in 1916 but, no, I had to be born in these flaccid times)
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by klr » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:38 am

Animavore wrote:Meh.


Not going to happen.
(although I hope it does 'cause I'm itching for a cause to fight for, I should've been born in 1886 and been running shit in 1916 but, no, I had to be born in these flaccid times)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Finally, something I might consider writing to my local representative about. Or to the papers ... firebrand stuff, I know. :hum:
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Animavore » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:39 am

klr wrote:
Animavore wrote:Meh.


Not going to happen.
(although I hope it does 'cause I'm itching for a cause to fight for, I should've been born in 1886 and been running shit in 1916 but, no, I had to be born in these flaccid times)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Finally, something I might consider writing to my local representative about. Or to the papers ... firebrand stuff, I know. :hum:
I was thinking more along the lines of bombing a few pubs :shifty:
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by klr » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:45 am

Animavore wrote:
klr wrote:
Animavore wrote:Meh.


Not going to happen.
(although I hope it does 'cause I'm itching for a cause to fight for, I should've been born in 1886 and been running shit in 1916 but, no, I had to be born in these flaccid times)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Finally, something I might consider writing to my local representative about. Or to the papers ... firebrand stuff, I know. :hum:
I was thinking more along the lines of bombing a few pubs :shifty:
That's where most of the best blasphemy takes place! :lol: Try some churches, or better still, the RTE Religious Affairs department ...
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Chinaski » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:47 am

Animavore wrote:
klr wrote:
Animavore wrote:Meh.


Not going to happen.
(although I hope it does 'cause I'm itching for a cause to fight for, I should've been born in 1886 and been running shit in 1916 but, no, I had to be born in these flaccid times)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Finally, something I might consider writing to my local representative about. Or to the papers ... firebrand stuff, I know. :hum:
I was thinking more along the lines of bombing a few pubs :shifty:
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Hermit » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:41 pm

Is Ireland applying for membership of the OIC?
That is exactly what I wondered about when I read the first article quoted in the opening post. Especially this bit:
It [the Supreme Court] also stated that a special protection for Christianity was incompatible with the religious equality provisions of Article 44.
Surely, instead of widening the scope of blasphemy laws, they should be repealed altogether.
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Mishakal » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:53 pm

Maybe once the Irish MP's sober up they will realize that this is a bad idea.... Oh wait! :doh: Their Irish... Ok scratch that idea...
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by klr » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:22 pm

Seraph wrote:
Is Ireland applying for membership of the OIC?
That is exactly what I wondered about when I read the first article quoted in the opening post. Especially this bit:
It [the Supreme Court] also stated that a special protection for Christianity was incompatible with the religious equality provisions of Article 44.
Surely, instead of widening the scope of blasphemy laws, they should be repealed altogether.
That was the gist of what one contributor had to say on one of the radio discussion programs today. It would require a referendum, which I for one would relish. In my view, the existing blasphemy provision in the Irish Constitution could be incompatible with the parts dealing with freedom of speech. The only reason it's never been a problem before now is because it's been ignored or dismissed.
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Don't Panic » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:22 pm

Animavore wrote:
klr wrote:
Animavore wrote:Meh.


Not going to happen.
(although I hope it does 'cause I'm itching for a cause to fight for, I should've been born in 1886 and been running shit in 1916 but, no, I had to be born in these flaccid times)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Finally, something I might consider writing to my local representative about. Or to the papers ... firebrand stuff, I know. :hum:
I was thinking more along the lines of bombing a few pubs :shifty:
:hum:
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Don't Panic » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:27 pm

Blasphemy laws!!!!! If this law is enacted I'm going to make a point of being the first person arrested for violating it. Limiting my ability to make insulting and disparaging remarks about religion is impinging on my right to express my beliefs as an Atheist.

With the upcoming local & European elections I've been avoiding canvasers like they've got swine flu, as would any normal voter, now I'm itching for the fuckers to call, this country is a fucking joke. :nono: :banghead:
Gawd wrote:»
And those Zumwalts are already useless, they can be taken out with an ICBM.
The world is a thing of utter inordinate complexity and richness and strangeness that is absolutely awesome. I mean the idea that such complexity can arise not only out of such simplicity, but probably absolutely out of nothing, is the most fabulous extraordinary idea. And once you get some kind of inkling of how that might have happened, it's just wonderful. And . . . the opportunity to spend 70 or 80 years of your life in such a universe is time well spent as far as I am concerned.
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:18 pm

DP wrote:Blasphemy laws!!!!! If this law is enacted I'm going to make a point of being the first person arrested for violating it. Limiting my ability to make insulting and disparaging remarks about religion is impinging on my right to express my beliefs as an Atheist.

With the upcoming local & European elections I've been avoiding canvasers like they've got swine flu, as would any normal voter, now I'm itching for the fuckers to call, this country is a fucking joke. :nono: :banghead:
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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Don't Panic » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:26 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
DP wrote:Blasphemy laws!!!!! If this law is enacted I'm going to make a point of being the first person arrested for violating it. Limiting my ability to make insulting and disparaging remarks about religion is impinging on my right to express my beliefs as an Atheist.

With the upcoming local & European elections I've been avoiding canvasers like they've got swine flu, as would any normal voter, now I'm itching for the fuckers to call, this country is a fucking joke. :nono: :banghead:
Bali? :think:
Ireland. Bali is a joke.
Gawd wrote:»
And those Zumwalts are already useless, they can be taken out with an ICBM.
The world is a thing of utter inordinate complexity and richness and strangeness that is absolutely awesome. I mean the idea that such complexity can arise not only out of such simplicity, but probably absolutely out of nothing, is the most fabulous extraordinary idea. And once you get some kind of inkling of how that might have happened, it's just wonderful. And . . . the opportunity to spend 70 or 80 years of your life in such a universe is time well spent as far as I am concerned.
D.N.A.

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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by al-rawandi » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:12 pm

Mishakal wrote:Maybe once the Irish MP's sober up they will realize that this is a bad idea.... Oh wait! :doh: Their Irish... Ok scratch that idea...

So will the Irish still be aloud to be obnoxious drunken layabouts who beat their wives? This is the critical question.

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Re: Feck! Ireland considers “blasphemous libel” law

Post by Arse » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:43 pm

This law is never going to get passed. And if it does I will be racing against DP, klr, Animavore and the rest to be the first person prosecuted under it. Stupid bastard politicians. :pissed:
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