Julian Assange - Still a Class-A prick

[JimC]

...it is somewhat unrealistic to think that direct military action against putative allies such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan is or was a credible option. Sure, they are hot-beds of support for Islamic terrorism, but they are also countries with huge internal conflicts (particularly Pakistan), whose rulers have as much to fear from the wrath of the fundamentalists as does the West...

It's the governments of those putative allies that aided islamic terrorists, so the US attacks a country whose dictator actually suppressed the Taliban and any other fundamentalist movement. With the possible exception of Afghanistan it just doesn't make sense to speak of a "war against terror".

A bald and incorrect assertion, IMO... In the case of Pakistan, elements within its security services and military have definite links, but at the same time its military was waging quite a vicious little war with islamic insurgents in the Kut valley and other Frontier provinces. Governments in these regions are not monolithic, and manage to serve many masters... As for Saudi Arabia, much of its security is devoted to preventing its home-grown islamic fanatics from assassinating members of the royal family for daring to allow the great satan to have bases within its sacred soil...

I made it clear I was not talking about the invasion of Iraq, which, although Saddam was a monster, was poorly conceived and counter productive in many ways.

Also, Gawd, I would agree that the continuing unquestioning support for Israel by the US, no matter how recalcitrant the Israelis are about reining in the settlements or working to obtain some sort of deal with the Palestinians, is also crippling US attempts to move forward. Islamists the world over will use this "Israel right or wrong" attitude to maintain unfailing opposition to the US and, by extension, the west in general. Having said that, an uneqivocal rocket ceasefire by Hamas in the Gaza strip, trumpeted to the world, might make it easier for America to say to Israel "OK, now it's your turn"

[Twiglet]

Yet nobody has posted the Assange Rap!!??

[Hermit]

A bald and incorrect assertion, IMO... In the case of Pakistan, elements within its security services and military have definite links, but at the same time its military was waging quite a vicious little war with islamic insurgents in the Kut valley and other Frontier provinces. Governments in these regions are not monolithic, and manage to serve many masters... As for Saudi Arabia, much of its security is devoted to preventing its home-grown islamic fanatics from assassinating members of the royal family for daring to allow the great satan to have bases within its sacred soil...

I did a bit more reading as a result of your post, and am happy to say that I have learnt from it. You're right and I was wrong. Thanks for pointing this out.

Still, looking at which country was attacked by the alliance of the willing, and which ones were not, ought to cast some doubt regarding the official reasons given for the (in)actions.

[Trolldor]

Yet nobody has posted the Assange Rap!!??

Why would we?

[Cunt]

It is going to get easier and easier for 'whistleblowers' (or just assholes) to release information and tougher to secure that information. I think this is a good thing. Of course it doesn't matter what I think of it, it's just reality.

Because of this, mainly, I think this wikileaks event is a good one. Someone earlier said that government and corporations should fear leaks. I agree. I think they should fear it a lot more than they have been.

Based on this, and based on the fact that the 'harm' done by these leaks has yet to be established, I will continue to think well of it.

Those who lost the most kind of make themselves look bad when they call to assassinate (illegally) the people they want to blame for the leaks. Especially when I don't think the leaks can be blamed on any ONE person. It's a problem system-wide if you ask me. People expecting to operate in secret have unreasonable expectations. Good that they know this now.

[Twiglet]

Kevin Rudd makes a good point about where the responsibility for the leaks really rests:

Link to original article

"Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd says the United States, not WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, is to blame for the release of secret diplomatic cables. Mr Rudd says the 39-year-old Australian cannot be held personally responsible for the release of more than 250,000 documents. He says the leaks raise questions about the adequacy of US security. "Mr Assange is not himself responsible for the unauthorised release of 250,000 documents from the US diplomatic communications network...//... "The bad people in this little exercise are the people who gave the information to him, because they're the people who breached the trust. "They deserve to be chased and prosecuted."

Perhaps those guilty of warcrimes also deserve to be chased and prosecuted, but Mr Rudd probably doesn't want to upset America when it's already a bit prickly.....

[JimC]

Kevin Rudd makes a good point about where the responsibility for the leaks really rests:

Link to original article

"Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd says the United States, not WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, is to blame for the release of secret diplomatic cables. Mr Rudd says the 39-year-old Australian cannot be held personally responsible for the release of more than 250,000 documents. He says the leaks raise questions about the adequacy of US security. "Mr Assange is not himself responsible for the unauthorised release of 250,000 documents from the US diplomatic communications network...//... "The bad people in this little exercise are the people who gave the information to him, because they're the people who breached the trust. "They deserve to be chased and prosecuted."

Perhaps those guilty of warcrimes also deserve to be chased and prosecuted, but Mr Rudd probably doesn't want to upset America when it's already a bit prickly.....

I agree with him, even though his motive for making the press release was to make himself look better than Gillard, who rather stupidly jumped the gun, initially accusing Assange of illegal activities. The subtle cold war between the two of them is quite amusing...

[JimC]

Thinking about the future of WikiLeaks, I sincerely hope the publicity means that they will attract whistle blowers from a variety of other countries. It has been a little too relentlessly anti-US...

Would love to see some material (at a similar level of secrecy & importance) from Russia, China, Iran, Israel etc...

Mind you, whistleblowers there would face much harder penalties, and the security organs of those countries may pursue the WikiLeaks organisation with a certain vigour...

[maiforpeace]

Kevin Rudd makes a good point about where the responsibility for the leaks really rests:

Link to original article

"Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd says the United States, not WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, is to blame for the release of secret diplomatic cables. Mr Rudd says the 39-year-old Australian cannot be held personally responsible for the release of more than 250,000 documents. He says the leaks raise questions about the adequacy of US security. "Mr Assange is not himself responsible for the unauthorised release of 250,000 documents from the US diplomatic communications network...//... "The bad people in this little exercise are the people who gave the information to him, because they're the people who breached the trust. "They deserve to be chased and prosecuted."

Perhaps those guilty of warcrimes also deserve to be chased and prosecuted, but Mr Rudd probably doesn't want to upset America when it's already a bit prickly.....

I agree with him, even though his motive for making the press release was to make himself look better than Gillard, who rather stupidly jumped the gun, initially accusing Assange of illegal activities. The subtle cold war between the two of them is quite amusing...

This is what I have thought from the beginning. Unfortunately the only 'bad people' according to the US is Bradley Manning...I certainly hope that won't be the end of the matter, and that this whole scandal makes the US take a long, hard look at classified information and how secure it is kept.

[charlou]

I certainly hope that won't be the end of the matter, and that this whole scandal makes the US take a long, hard look at classified information and how secure it is kept.

They might also take a long hard look at what constitutes classified information, and what constitutes appropriate diplomatic discourse about 'foreigners', both of which have led to this laughable combination of indignant outrage and embarrassment.

[Ian]

I certainly hope that won't be the end of the matter, and that this whole scandal makes the US take a long, hard look at classified information and how secure it is kept.

They might also take a long hard look at what constitutes classified information, and what constitutes appropriate diplomatic discourse about 'foreigners', both of which have led to this laughable combination of indignant outrage and embarrassment.

"They" is a term that ought to apply to every government with a foreign ministry and ambassadors who send home reports. There's nothing unique about what the US State Department does or how it does it.

[charlou]

I certainly hope that won't be the end of the matter, and that this whole scandal makes the US take a long, hard look at classified information and how secure it is kept.

They might also take a long hard look at what constitutes classified information, and what constitutes appropriate diplomatic discourse about 'foreigners', both of which have led to this laughable combination of indignant outrage and embarrassment.

"They" is a term that ought to apply to every government with a foreign ministry and ambassadors who send home reports. There's nothing unique about what the US State Department does or how it does it.

I agree with you there.

[Hermit]

Recent ABC poll results:

Question 639
Should Julian Assange be Australian of the Year?
Yes 67%
No 33%
2898 votes counted

[JimC]

I certainly hope that won't be the end of the matter, and that this whole scandal makes the US take a long, hard look at classified information and how secure it is kept.

They might also take a long hard look at what constitutes classified information, and what constitutes appropriate diplomatic discourse about 'foreigners', both of which have led to this laughable combination of indignant outrage and embarrassment.

"They" is a term that ought to apply to every government with a foreign ministry and ambassadors who send home reports. There's nothing unique about what the US State Department does or how it does it.

Fair point, Ian. I made the point in an earlier post that it will be a good thing if similar leaks occur from Russia, China etc...

[Orphia Nay]

Thinking about the future of WikiLeaks, I sincerely hope the publicity means that they will attract whistle blowers from a variety of other countries. It has been a little too relentlessly anti-US...

Would love to see some material (at a similar level of secrecy & importance) from Russia, China, Iran, Israel etc...

Mind you, whistleblowers there would face much harder penalties, and the security organs of those countries may pursue the WikiLeaks organisation with a certain vigour...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatio ... _WikiLeaks

They've released information on a nuclear accident in Iran, and videos of Tibetan protests against China, and information on a number of other countries such as Australia, Denmark, Peru, Iceland, Ivory Coast, and Germany. But I guess most of us only hear about the US stuff.