Rape Rampant In US Military

[Meekychuppet]

The US military doesn't have the same problem as the rest of the world. What other workplace is like that described in the OP? Attacking the military does not "undermine" the problem. Insulting rape victims, what a whole slew of bullshit packed into two lines

Not really. Unless you can demonstrate that such a workplace makes rape more prevalent, harder to report, prosecute etc, something you have singularly failed to do, then saying it is a military issue trivialises all other occurrences.

But, America the great evil eh?

He's just hatin' on you cuz' you be black bro. :damnwhere'sthatKKKsmiley:

No, it's just that the only response a lot of people can give to any criticism, or even discussion of US policy's/culture/history is to fall back on "America the great evil eh" or "Anti-american" or any variation. Short cut to thinking. That's about the time I stop discussing anything with that person. A boring one trick pony.

I'm English so I'm hardly going to defend USA blindly. You just sound the same in every thread about them, its easy to tune you out.

[sandinista]

Obviously not tuning out as you seem to keep responding.

[Meekychuppet]

Obviously not tuning out as you seem to keep responding.

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

[Blondie]

Obviously not tuning out as you seem to keep responding.

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Inconvenient fact: the military is a highly regulated and administrated institution on a level far above almost anything else - including colleges.

[Meekychuppet]

Obviously not tuning out as you seem to keep responding.

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Inconvenient fact: the military is a highly regulated and administrated institution on a level far above almost anything else - including colleges.

Which means...?

[Ian]

Obviously not tuning out as you seem to keep responding.

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Inconvenient fact: the military is a highly regulated and administrated institution on a level far above almost anything else - including colleges.

Tell that to troops living in off-base housing with each other!

On the job is one thing, but servicemen and women spend plenty of off-duty hours together.
One could say, correctly, that American colleges are some of the best in the world, excellent institutions of higher learning. Does that apply to what happens at a fraternity party on a Saturday night?

[Blondie]

Obviously not tuning out as you seem to keep responding.

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Inconvenient fact: the military is a highly regulated and administrated institution on a level far above almost anything else - including colleges.

Which means...?

Isn't that obvious?

It means that even if the rape rate is equivalent between the armed forces and say colleges nationwide, it is still completely unacceptable and his line of argument is invalid.

[Meekychuppet]

Obviously not tuning out as you seem to keep responding.

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Inconvenient fact: the military is a highly regulated and administrated institution on a level far above almost anything else - including colleges.

Which means...?

Isn't that obvious?

It means that even if the rape rate is equivalent between the armed forces and say colleges nationwide, it is still completely unacceptable and his line of argument is invalid.

I thought you were arguing for him.

[Warren Dew]

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Taking the number of reported rapes and sexual assaults in the U.S. military from sandinista's source, and dividing by active duty military, I get a rate that's roughly three times as high as for the U.S. as a whole, so it's not true that it's "no greater degree".

I wouldn't be surprised if that were comparable to the rate on college campuses. On the other hand, I regard "as high a rate of rape as on college campuses" to be a big red flag, not a reason for complacency.

I do also regard the very low rate of follow up and conviction, and the small penalties assigned, to be problematic. With regard to the latter, a rape allegation that's sufficiently substantiated to follow up ought normally result in a court martial, not just routine punishment. In no case should rapists be allowed to remain in the service.

[Ian]

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Taking the number of reported rapes and sexual assaults in the U.S. military from sandinista's source, and dividing by active duty military, I get a rate that's roughly three times as high as for the U.S. as a whole, so it's not true that it's "no greater degree".

I wouldn't be surprised if that were comparable to the rate on college campuses. On the other hand, I regard "as high a rate of rape as on college campuses" to be a big red flag, not a reason for complacency.

I too wouldn't be surprised if the rate within the military were three times that of the overall US, given the demographics inherent with military servicemen. Lots of young people.

A few (staggering) numbers regarding sexual assault at colleges:
(compiled from a couple different sources, but the phrase "one in four" keeps coming up)

One in Four college women report surviving rape (15 percent) or attempted rape (12 percent) since their fourteenth birthday. (1)
In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime. (2)
In a typical academic year, 3% of college women report surviving rape or attempted rape. This does not include the summer, when many more rapes occur. (3)
In the year 2000, 246,000 women survived rape and sexual assault. This computes to 28 women every hour. (4)
A survey of high school students found that one in five had experienced forced sex (rape). Half of these girls told no one about the incident. (5)
Rape is common worldwide, with relatively similar rates of incidence across countries, with 19%-28% of college women reporting rape or attempted rape in several countries. In many countries, survivors are treated far worse than in the U.S. (6)

At least 1 in 4 college women will be the victim of a sexual assault during her academic career. Hirsch, Kathleen (1990)”Fraternities of Fear: Gang Rape, Male Bonding, and the Silencing of Women.” Ms., 1(2) 52-56.
At least 80% of all sexual assaults are committed by an acquaintance of the victim. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2001.
48.8% of college women who were victims of attacks that met the study’s definition of rape did not consider what happened to them rape. Bureau of Justice Stats. “Sexual Victimization of Collegiate Women” 2000, US DOJ.
More than 70% of rape victims knew their attackers, compared to about half of all violent crime victims. Dennison, Callie. Criminal Victimization 1998. Bureau of Justice Stats, DOJ.
There are 35.3 incidents of sexual assault per 1,000 female students on a campus as recorded over a 6.91 month period (the academic year of ‘96 – ’97) as reported in the 2000 DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics report “The Sexual Victimization of College Women.”
On average, at least 50% of college students’ sexual assaults are associated with alcohol use Abbey et al., 1996a, 1998; Copenhaver and Grauerholz, 1991; Harrington and Leitenberg, 1994; Presley et al., 199). Koss (1988), Within the study’s nationally represented sample of college students the results found that 74% of perpetrators and 55% of rape victims had been drinking alcohol prior to the assault.
In a survey of high school students, 56% of girls and 76% of boys [some of whom may be incoming college freshmen] believed forced sex was acceptable under some circumstances. Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, 1991.

Perhaps we could quit trying to make the prevalence of rape into an institutionally-related problem and all admit that it's a societal problem?

[Meekychuppet]

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Taking the number of reported rapes and sexual assaults in the U.S. military from sandinista's source, and dividing by active duty military, I get a rate that's roughly three times as high as for the U.S. as a whole, so it's not true that it's "no greater degree".

I wouldn't be surprised if that were comparable to the rate on college campuses. On the other hand, I regard "as high a rate of rape as on college campuses" to be a big red flag, not a reason for complacency.

I do also regard the very low rate of follow up and conviction, and the small penalties assigned, to be problematic. With regard to the latter, a rape allegation that's sufficiently substantiated to follow up ought normally result in a court martial, not just routine punishment. In no case should rapists be allowed to remain in the service.

Adjust your figures for age demographics.

[charlou]

Perhaps we could quit trying to make the prevalence of rape into an institutionally-related problem and all admit that it's a societal problem?

I think I was the first person in this thread to use the word institutionalised (in conjunction with the word culture) ... ? My use of it was the broader social definition.

The term "institutionalisation" is widely used in social theory to refer to the process of embedding something (for example a concept, a social role, a particular value or mode of behaviour) within an organisation, social system, or society as a whole.

We should obviously look at the culture of a society in which rape is prevalent. I also think we must look at why it's more prevalent in the institutions that society supports, if that's found to be the case. That's pretty much what we're doing with this discussion.

[JimC]

As Anthroban said, the military is (or should be ) a very organised and highly regulated organisation where both discipline and in-group cohesiveness are highly valued. Given this, appropriately harsh punishment and seriously motivated officers, rape should be much less prevalent within any military organisation than in a comparable group of people of the same age. At the very least, this should be an aim of any military force that values its own honour and integrity.

So? That doesn't validate what you're saying. Rape is a crime, an awful one and it happens in the military, as far as we can see, to no greater degree than anywhere else.

Taking the number of reported rapes and sexual assaults in the U.S. military from sandinista's source, and dividing by active duty military, I get a rate that's roughly three times as high as for the U.S. as a whole, so it's not true that it's "no greater degree".

I wouldn't be surprised if that were comparable to the rate on college campuses. On the other hand, I regard "as high a rate of rape as on college campuses" to be a big red flag, not a reason for complacency.

I do also regard the very low rate of follow up and conviction, and the small penalties assigned, to be problematic. With regard to the latter, a rape allegation that's sufficiently substantiated to follow up ought normally result in a court martial, not just routine punishment. In no case should rapists be allowed to remain in the service.

Good points, well made...

[charlou]

giggity

(this may be some form of young person's talk that is coded so old farts cannot read it...)

Let Google be your friend.

I had no idea what it meant either until I looked it up. Turned out to be a waste of time. Now, that is a sure indicator of oldfartness.

I looked at the link, and it made me feel even more ancient than usual... :sighsm:

[Coito ergo sum]

No, it's just that the only response a lot of people can give to any criticism, or even discussion of US policy's/culture/history is to fall back on "America the great evil eh" or "Anti-american" or any variation. Short cut to thinking. That's about the time I stop discussing anything with that person. A boring one trick pony.

I think in this case it was merely that the article you cited in your OP had an inflammatory and extreme headline, but the meat of the article did not contain evidence from which it could be concluded that the main assertion was correct.