American religiousness

[charlou]

Same thing with the "mega churches". "See the might house the Lord hath built!" And people go there because it's cool to go there, not because of any driving need for religion as far as I can tell. And the megas don't represent the majority of church-going people anyway. The small, get-in/get-out quickly churches are the norm.

Those mega-churches are built on tithed funds. As soon as somebody joins such a church, they start raisin funds and recruiting new members, so yes, it may be cool to go there but it does not come cheap either and people still go.

Financial investment .. yes, I can see people finding it difficult to walk away from that .. and not only that .. in order to make that material investment in the first place, people must feel emotionally invested too.

[DRSB]

[floppit]

I think you might be on to something re conformity Zilla. America does seem religious but i've never been and have no first hand experience. It 'feels' that way partly because of battles over evolutiion which are sidelined most of the time in the uk as nutjobs, but also, perhaps the prevelance of religious wording and prayer. I used to post on a US based forum and it was striking to me, foreign. I can believe that huge chunks of it is fuelled by conformity.

The other thing that is alien to most brits (i think) is the revrance of the flag and national anthem. In the uk flag flyers are normally hot right wingers, often verging on the darker side of right wing! Ok, we do it a bit in a world cup year, but not in schools. I don't even know all the words to our national anthem, I doubt anyone I know does (maybe my dad??). I tend to think of those things as also socially binding in a conformist rather than liberal way. So much so i'm nervous to post this but I figure/hope it's ok to say?

[Thinking Aloud]

I think you might be on to something re conformity Zilla. America does seem religious but i've never been and have no first hand experience. It 'feels' that way partly because of battles over evolutiion which are sidelined most of the time in the uk as nutjobs, but also, perhaps the prevelance of religious wording and prayer. I used to post on a US based forum and it was striking to me, foreign. I can believe that huge chunks of it is fuelled by conformity.

The other thing that is alien to most brits (i think) is the revrance of the flag and national anthem. In the uk flag flyers are normally hot right wingers, often verging on the darker side of right wing! Ok, we do it a bit in a world cup year, but not in schools. I don't even know all the words to our national anthem, I doubt anyone I know does (maybe my dad??). I tend to think of those things as also socially binding in a conformist rather than liberal way. So much so i'm nervous to post this but I figure/hope it's ok to say?

Flag flying always surprises me when I visit the States. Every other house (if not all of them) seems to have one outside, and I wonder whether it's because the occupants aren't sure where they are.

But joking aside, and going back to something said earlier in the thread, the "belonging" that is offered by churches to people arriving in a community is bound to be something that has an effect. When I went off to University one of the first things I did was seek out the RC chaplaincy, because I needed something familiar to latch onto in a strange city, not being a particularly social person. Given the relatively young history of the US and its immigrant population, it wouldn't surprise me if the strength of religiosity is related to those early settlers seeking group membership - something that has carried on and expanded over the last few centuries more strongly than in Europe, where people were already "settled" into denominations.

Add to that the missionary fervour of some early settlers...

I'm just thinking aloud.

[Tero]

If you start talking theology issues to Merrikins, they get very uncomfortable. They say they are spiritual and the religious thingie is personal, nebulous, and...they are Christians nevertheless cause Jesus was good guy, according to them. They never read his stories. Much, the cross part and that yes.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you start talking theology issues to Merrikins, they get very uncomfortable. They say they are spiritual and the religious thingie is personal, nebulous, and...they are Christians nevertheless cause Jesus was good guy, according to them. They never read his stories. Much, the cross part and that yes.

True, they're clueless because they have no idea what they're supposed to believe. I love torturing them.

[DRSB]

I think you might be on to something re conformity Zilla. America does seem religious but i've never been and have no first hand experience. It 'feels' that way partly because of battles over evolutiion which are sidelined most of the time in the uk as nutjobs, but also, perhaps the prevelance of religious wording and prayer. I used to post on a US based forum and it was striking to me, foreign. I can believe that huge chunks of it is fuelled by conformity.

The other thing that is alien to most brits (i think) is the revrance of the flag and national anthem. In the uk flag flyers are normally hot right wingers, often verging on the darker side of right wing! Ok, we do it a bit in a world cup year, but not in schools. I don't even know all the words to our national anthem, I doubt anyone I know does (maybe my dad??). I tend to think of those things as also socially binding in a conformist rather than liberal way. So much so i'm nervous to post this but I figure/hope it's ok to say?

Flag flying always surprises me when I visit the States. Every other house (if not all of them) seems to have one outside, and I wonder whether it's because the occupants aren't sure where they are.

But joking aside, and going back to something said earlier in the thread, the "belonging" that is offered by churches to people arriving in a community is bound to be something that has an effect. When I went off to University one of the first things I did was seek out the RC chaplaincy, because I needed something familiar to latch onto in a strange city, not being a particularly social person. Given the relatively young history of the US and its immigrant population, it wouldn't surprise me if the strength of religiosity is related to those early settlers seeking group membership - something that has carried on and expanded over the last few centuries more strongly than in Europe, where people were already "settled" into denominations.

Add to that the missionary fervour of some early settlers...

I'm just thinking aloud.

I think the psychology of those early settlers accounts for a great deal indeed, we know who they were, puritans fleeing religious intolerance, only to become the most intolerant bunch themselves. This probably accounts also for why the fundamentalist churches all originate in US.

I am also amazed at how quickly second generation immigrants pick up the fervour and start referring to "our founding fathers" although both their parents were born in Poland, for example.

[DaveDodo007]

I think American religiousness is due to the fact that America is a nation of immigrants and people like to mix with like minded people. As the church was the focal point of society for Americans they gravitate towards that. This left America behind the other Western democracies, I think the youth of America are now rejecting religion in large numbers except for the new immigrants who have the same problem as the earlier immigrants.

If church was the only place to do that I'd be inclined to give it some credence. But people spend most of their time outside the church, even in highly religious countries.

I was thinking of earlier times. It's not reason that will replace god it's the entertainment industry DVD's computer games, music and sports. So much better than itchy church pants to quote Homer.

[Ronja]

I have been hesitant to post because it is such a very long time since I last lived in the US. But I would like to share these memories and a reflection.

In the late 1960ies in Baltimore MD, my mom and I used to sit at a window on Sundays and giggle at the hats and dresses of the women walking or being driven to church. The degree to which many of them dressed up was funny, and that many chose to walk, to make it extra clear that they were on their way to church, was funnier still. But my mom also sometimes shook her head and sighed at someone especially outrageous, and commented about not one black person among them or that some of them would not even speak to our "adopted grandparents" who were Jewish, and I ended up asking questions, and started to feel weird about the whole parade.

What I could not square then, as a four-five year old, or later as a devout teenager xian, or today, is that these people supposedly were followers of someone who told them to make no difference between free person and slave, to love all brothers and sisters in Christ equally, and to pray in silence and secrecy, not making a show of it. That aspect of it still makes no sense to me. Don't they know the supposed words of their Lord? Any red letter edition of the babble makes it pretty clear what apparently should be the central message of xianity...

It may be that I cannot fathom what a "typical" American knows about the xian scripture/doctrine (or any other religion), as I have had to endure compulsory religion classes all through primary and secondary school, as has pretty much everyone else in my generation and the generations before, in Finland. And today's Ethics classes (for those pupils who do not belong to any organized religion, including our kids) require quite a bit of knowledge about myths, world religions, and the history of religions if the kids are to pass. I must say that I find that more of a good thing than I originally expected to.

[Hermit]

Any red letter edition of the babble makes it pretty clear what apparently should be the central message of xianity...

There is no central message in the bible. For every chapter, anecdote, parable or verse proclaiming one thing, there is most likely another proclaiming the complete opposite. Historically, the central theme of christianity has been that its followers have been cherry-picking from the bible to suit their particular environment and their needs.

[Ronja]

Any red letter edition of the babble makes it pretty clear what apparently should be the central message of xianity...

There is no central message in the bible. For every chapter, anecdote, parable or verse proclaiming one thing, there is most likely another proclaiming the complete opposite. Historically, the central theme of christianity has been that its followers have been cherry-picking from the bible to suit their particular environment and their needs.

That's why I used the wording "apparently should". And even if one only reads the red letters (though I find it HILARIOUS that there are some even in Revelation! - at least in my red letter babble there are), the various teachings still manage to contradict each other.

[charlou]

I think American religiousness is due to the fact that America is a nation of immigrants and people like to mix with like minded people. As the church was the focal point of society for Americans they gravitate towards that. This left America behind the other Western democracies, I think the youth of America are now rejecting religion in large numbers except for the new immigrants who have the same problem as the earlier immigrants.

If church was the only place to do that I'd be inclined to give it some credence. But people spend most of their time outside the church, even in highly religious countries.

I was thinking of earlier times. It's not reason that will replace god it's the entertainment industry DVD's computer games, music and sports. So much better than itchy church pants to quote Homer.

I think you may be right .. the 21st century version of a cargo cult.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The American white culture, and the African American culture as well, expects you to say you belong to a christian sect of your choice. So they do. It barely goes beyond that.

[Kaison]

Flag flying always surprises me when I visit the States. Every other house (if not all of them) seems to have one outside, and I wonder whether it's because the occupants aren't sure where they are.

Speaking of flag flying, thanks for the opportunity to share this awesome picture with the board.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Saw that on the Daily Show yesterday.