Noisy neighbors to the north acting up again. o,0

[Blondie]

It's disputed territory, I think it said as much in the article..

The US has bases in Antarctica.. Does that mean it's their territory?

[JimC]

It's disputed territory, I think it said as much in the article..

The US has bases in Antarctica.. Does that mean it's their territory?

Disputed perhaps, but it has been firmly in the control of South Korea for over 50 years, and has a mostly civilian population, with a military base attached.

Attacking it was clearly a provocative act, and an unprovoked act of violence against innocent civilians.

Worthy of both a protest, and a firm response...

Anthroban wrote:

It's not their Island and there were obviously no troops there.

Incorrect. At least de facto it is their's, and there were both troops and civilians on the island.

[FBM]

No doubt. The NLL was drawn up unilaterally, and the North has always disputed it, with good reason. It's certainly not drawn to their favor and IMO encroaches too far North. The justification for drawing it thus was that those islands would almost be certainly used to assemble to amass troops for an attack, and with Incheon so close, that could hardly be allowed. Not defending that, by the way, just repeating it. I think there needs to be some sort of compromise on that whole issue, but none of the powers-that-be around here have asked for my opinion on the matter.

Anyway, the island was far from deserted and NK knew there were civilians there when they shelled it. Disputed or not, that's no license to bombard its villages. "In self-defense" means to me 'in defense of the civilians and soldiers stationed there'.

[Trolldor]

Fuck North Korea. So long as it is a theocratic dictatorship hell bent on conquest to the extent it would starve its own populous it doesn't deserve claims of 'territory'.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm really getting tired of the US trying to provoke countries like the DPRK by jumping in front of their artillery shells during a perfectly legal and previously uneventful round of "clear the weapon through the muzzle". It's getting so a peaceful little country run by a benevolent god-king can't have any fun at all. Damn Yankees!!!!!!

[FBM]

70% Support Military Action Against N.Korea

Nearly 70 percent of the South Koreans support limited military actions in response to North Korea's shelling of Yeonpyeong Island last Tuesday. This contrasts starkly with the mood in April, after North Korea sank the Navy corvette Cheonan, when less than 30 percent said they support military action.

Although in April roughly equal numbers thought the government reaction to the Cheonan sinking was appropriate or inappropriate, now those who say the government's response to the Yeonpyeong attack was inadequate outnumber those who think it was enough three times. The swing seems to indicate disillusionment with the government's response to a series of military provocations by the North.

In a nationwide poll by Hankook Research for the East Asia Institute of 800 adults on Saturday, only 24.7 percent said the government is responding adequately to the attack, while 72 percent disagreed. Public opinion has chilled toward the government since April, when in a similar EAI survey about the Cheonan sinking, 41.2 percent approved of the government's response and 47.5 percent did not.

The top government mistakes respondents ticked were lack of a risk management system and the lukewarm nature of the reaction with 36.5 and 23.8 percent. Some 68.6 percent said limited military action against North Korea is desirable.

The general sense of security was the lowest since the inauguration of the Lee Myung-bak administration, with 81.5 percent saying they feel insecure, up from 66.8 percent in April.

Meanwhile, a Research & Research poll for the Asan Institute for Policy Studies on Saturday also asked 1,000 adults nationwide what they thought of the government response. Some 65.7 percent viewed it negatively and just 25.9 percent positively. Asked who is to be held responsible for the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island, 87.3 percent said North Korea and 12.7 percent the South Korean government. A whopping 80.3 percent agreed that the military should have responded more strongly.
englishnews@chosun.com / Nov. 29, 2010 12:53 KST

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/htm ... 01144.html

[Coito ergo sum]

North Korea Fires Artillery in Its Waters, Rattles Markets
Published: Tuesday, 7 Dec 2010 | 10:11 PM ET Text Size
By: Reuters
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North Korea fired artillery into its west coast waters on Wednesday briefly pushing down nervous South Korean financial markets but they quickly recovered after media reports said it was only a military drill.

A South Korean military official said: "At 9:04 am an unknown number of artillery shells fell on the North's side of the NLL (North Limit Line)".

The firing, which local media said was a military drill, came just over two weeks after the North bombarded a South Korean island near their disputed border off the west coast of the divided peninsula.

News of the firings hit local shares [.KS11 1955.72 -6.80 (-0.35%)] and the won [KRW=X 1140.7 8.70 (+0.77%) ]. Both later recovered.

It came as the top U.S. military official visited Seoul where he pressed China to act like a world leader and tame its ally North Korea, warning that the "bad guy" from Pyongyang will continue to try to destabilize the region.

Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went to the South Korean capital to show his "commitment and solidarity" to the U.S. ally after North Korea's attack and revelations of its nuclear advances.

In an indication of the flurry of diplomatic activity since the North's bombardment of a South Korean island, the Washington Post reported that New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, a former special envoy to North Korea, may visit Pyongyang next week for a "private chat with top officials at the invitation of key people in the nuclear crowd over there".

Mullen's trip to South Korea and Japan follows talks in Washington on Monday between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her Japanese and South Korean counterparts. All three voiced grave concerns over the North Korean attacks and called on China to take action against its wayward ally.

On Tuesday, Beijing hit back at the United States and its Asian allies for their refusal to talk to North Korea, saying dialogue was the only way to calm escalating tension on the divided Korean peninsula.

But Mullen said the Chinese must do more because "their economy is dependent on stability".

"They are a world leader and leaders must lead — particularly to prevent crises and to prevent the kinds of destabilizing activities that are very evident coming out of the leadership in Pyongyang," he said. China views the North as a strategic buffer against the U.S.-allied democracy South Korea and is Pyongyang's largest trade partner and benefactor.


RELATED LINKS
US, Allies Urge China to Rein in North KoreaScenes From the Artillery AttackSouth Korean Stocks Could Rise 20%: Auerbach's Kim
Deputy Secretary of State Jim Steinberg will lead a U.S. delegation to China next week to try to persuade Beijing to put more pressure on Pyongyang despite Chinese fears that this may destabilize North Korea, a U.S. official said.

Washington, Seoul and Tokyo have been lukewarm towards Beijing's proposal for emergency talks between the six regional powers, worried that they could be seen as rewarding Pyongyang for its deadly attack on a South Korean island two weeks ago.

More Provocations Likely

Mullen added there is "no doubt in my mind (provocations) will continue unless leaders step forward and put Pyongyang in a position where they realize their behavior has to change".

"This guy's a bad guy and when you're dealing with bad guys, you can't wish away what they're going to do," Mullen said of the North's iron ruler Kim Jong-il.

"Because of the actions taken by North Korea recently ... they're making (the region) a more dangerous place," he added.

As South Korea staged its own live-fire drills around the country, Mullen was to meet senior Seoul military officials and President Lee Myung-bak. Lee said he wants to turn the island that was attacked last month, as well as four others nearby, into "military fortresses".

Mullen said he wanted to review the various U.S.-South Korea military drills planned in coming months and work with Seoul to calm the situation.

"A very significant part of our discussions and goals is to keep any actions limited to those that would not escalate ... because no one wants this to break out of control and conflict to break out," said Mullen.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/40559828

[FBM]

As long as they're making noise, there's no threat. They capitalize, so to speak, on the element of surprise. They never attack soon after issuing propaganda or making other types of noise. I'll sleep well for the next few nights. When they've been quiet for a while, I'll start to worry.

[Coito ergo sum]

As long as they're making noise, there's no threat. They capitalize, so to speak, on the element of surprise. They never attack soon after issuing propaganda or making other types of noise. I'll sleep well for the next few nights. When they've been quiet for a while, I'll start to worry.

They "never" do? What's your sample size?

[FBM]

As long as they're making noise, there's no threat. They capitalize, so to speak, on the element of surprise. They never attack soon after issuing propaganda or making other types of noise. I'll sleep well for the next few nights. When they've been quiet for a while, I'll start to worry.

They "never" do? What's your sample size?

OK, between now and June 1996, they haven't. I've been here. All the stories I've heard or read about describing earlier attacks say the same thing: no warning. Like everything, though, there's likely to be an exception somewhere. If so, exceptions are rare to the point that I sleep well when they're making threats and rattling their sabres.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As long as they're making noise, there's no threat. They capitalize, so to speak, on the element of surprise. They never attack soon after issuing propaganda or making other types of noise. I'll sleep well for the next few nights. When they've been quiet for a while, I'll start to worry.

They "never" do? What's your sample size?

OK, between now and June 1996, they haven't. I've been here. All the stories I've heard or read about describing earlier attacks say the same thing: no warning. Like everything, though, there's likely to be an exception somewhere. If so, exceptions are rare to the point that I sleep well when they're making threats and rattling their sabres.

All same-same 1950.

[FBM]

True that.

[Ian]

There are a handful of real indicators to tell if they're serious about attacking, but they're also good and denial & deception (D&D) techniques. IMO, if and when the big attack finally comes, it'll be preceded by a "routine" crisis and military standup. The Yom Kippur War was preceded by yet another (of many) Egyptian army exercises, with the Israelis telling themselves that an attack was, again, unlikely.

[Coito ergo sum]

As long as they're making noise, there's no threat. They capitalize, so to speak, on the element of surprise. They never attack soon after issuing propaganda or making other types of noise. I'll sleep well for the next few nights. When they've been quiet for a while, I'll start to worry.

They "never" do? What's your sample size?

OK, between now and June 1996, they haven't. I've been here. All the stories I've heard or read about describing earlier attacks say the same thing: no warning. Like everything, though, there's likely to be an exception somewhere. If so, exceptions are rare to the point that I sleep well when they're making threats and rattling their sabres.

Yeah, but...how many times have they otherwise attacked? Twice?

[Coito ergo sum]

There are a handful of real indicators to tell if they're serious about attacking, but they're also good and denial & deception (D&D) techniques. IMO, if and when the big attack finally comes, it'll be preceded by a "routine" crisis and military standup. The Yom Kippur War was preceded by yet another (of many) Egyptian army exercises, with the Israelis telling themselves that an attack was, again, unlikely.

My guess is that there won't be much more for the time being, after the new ROK defense minister said that if Long Dong Il attacks again, they will do something to the effect of "bomb them into submission." I like that dude's style. Clarity and certainty are good qualities.